#20 INTERVIEW OF BLACK STUDENTS ENROLLED AT WASHINGTON AND LEE 1. Have you decided upon a college major? Ifyes, what? Yes. Computer science. 2. (Ifthe answer to do question 1 is no, skip #7.) What is your grade point average (GPA) in your major field? I'm not sure what it is in the field. 3. What type ofdegree are you working toward at Washington and Lee? BA 4. What is the occupation or profession you want to do enter upon.finishing your education? I want to do do computer consulting. I don't want to do program all day. Can't program all day. Too much. 5. Do you plan on working toward an advanced degree at some time after finishing your undergraduate program? I'd like to do go to do right into grad school. I'll look for jobs to do, but I'd like to do not take a break. Masters, and then probably work, and then go for a PhD. 6. While growing up, did you attend or were you personally active in church? Yes I No Ifyes, please give the denomination, and the type of church activities in which you participated. Yes. Baptist. Christian Baptist. I was in the church choir, church youth group, my dad's a minister, and I just .. went to do other churches and stuff, Sunday school, lots of stuff. How would you characterize your church involvement in Lexington? Don't go like I should. I go to do First Baptist here and there. I started going, I guess freshman year my mom came down and said "We're finding you a church" so, We found a church, and actually the minister there passed away, I believe was it last year. And for a while they had a deacon, and he can't really prea~h, so he had to do tell stories, kind of, so they got back, and they have a new minister who's really good. So I try to do go, but sometimes I'm lazy -I shouldn't be ... []. 7. How would you compare your level ofparticipation in extra-curricular activities in high school and at Washington and Lee? Probably about the same because basketball is such a time commitment, and I played in high school and here, that you didn't really have time -personally, for me, I know a lot ofpeople do a lot more than varsity sports, but there's not a lot of extra time because you're so structured, and basketball takes such a huge chunk out ofyour day, whereas in high school I had a little more time, but I didn't really do that much more. 8. How did you learn about Washington and Lee University? My mom. I think someone at work told her to do have me apply to do a private school somewhere and they told her about Washington and Lee. So I decided to do visit. At first I was like "I'm not going to do visit. I've never heard of it, mom. But I visited and I liked it and I came here and ... [] 9. To do what extent were you assisted during the admissions process by an alumnus of Washington and Lee? None. 10. Didyou visit the campus before you matriculated as a student? Ifyes, under what circumstances? Visited on your own Participated in the Summer Scholar's Program Visited during a Prospective Student Weekend Other: Yes, I guess after you express interest, the school.. I only live three hours away, but they flew me here to do see the school, so I did that, and I stayed ... They used to do have weekends -they might still have them, where you stay from Thursday till Sunday. So I did that. Would you describe what that weekend was like? I had a great time when I was here. I hung out -didn't interact really with any white students. I just hung out with the black students and they had parties for us to do attend and went out to do dinner with some ofthe older girls and one was on the basketball team. At that time I didn't know I was going to do play basketball in college, but I had a great time when I came down here. Please describe your reactions to do this campus visit. I thought the campus was beautiful, and everyone seemed nice. I remember that day, I think, there was every single season wrapped up in the one. That's what I remember about that, because it snowed, it got hot, all in one day. It rained, and then it was like fall, all in one day. It was the strangest say. I was like "Woo" but I just remember it was really pretty and I liked the people, the people seemed really friendly, so I got a good feeling about it. You, know, it was not far. I didn't want to do go to do a school where you had to do bus to do class. Was good that the dorms were right there, and I got to do see the dorms, which, they were decent. But I was staying in Gaines, too, so I didn't really get a good experience of the freshman dorms. What kind offeedback did you get from the students that were hosting you? They seemed fine. I mean they didn't really say. It was like, I guess we didn't really ask, because at the time it just seemed like, I wasn't used to do visiting schools without my mom. I had visited other schools without my mother, and I just never new to do ask "How do you feel about the place?" I know now, but then I didn't know. I guess I was just so caught up in being in the whole college scene, and it was nice to do get away and to do see a different environment. So it didn't come up. No. 10a. Was W&L your ... First choice Second choice Third choice Less than third choice After I narrowed it down, it was my second choice. 1Ob. About how many other colleges did you apply to do? ... No other One Two Three Four Five Six or more I think I applied to do a total of five or six schools, all in state. 1Oc. How many other colleges accepted you? None One Two Three Four Five Six I got into all ofthem. 11. What made you decide to do attend Washington and Lee? Relatives wanted you to do come here Teacher advised you Good academic reputation Good social reputation Offered financial assistance Offers special programs you wanted Tuition lower than similar colleges High school guidance school counselor advised you Private college counselor advised you Wanted to do live near home Friend suggested attending Recruited by college representative Recruited by athletic department Graduates go to do top graduate schools Graduates get good jobs Religious affiliation or orientation Size of college Not accepted anywhere else Rankings in national magazines Well, it came down to do between here and William and Mary, and my boyfriend at the time, high school sweetheart, we still kinda date off and on, he goes to do William and Mary, and my mom said"' I don't want you two to do go to do the same school," And that was understandable, and I though both campuses were beautiful, but I guess finally, I liked the small intimate atmosphere here, and then financial aid was better here, so it just came down to do a few little decision. I wouldn't have made my final decision on that's were he was going, or anything, but my mom just put a little bug in my ear. "Just branch out a little bit." Were there other factors you considered in making the decision? I liked it being close to do home. It's only, like I said, three hours away. So I liked that. Not too close, or I think my father would visit me all the time if it were. And not too far, I can get home if I need to do. I like the fact that I can talk to do my professors, and that I can play basketball here, so just those little things, and that it has a good reputation. Good academic reputation? Yes. 12. Once you decided to do enroll at W&L, what was the reaction of friends and relatives? They were really excited. My friends, most of them had never heard of the place, so they just went, "Where are you going to do school?" And I tried to do keep explaining to do them and said it was in Lexington, "Lexington, Kentucky." No ...and then, my family of course was really happy, cause I'm the -I have a half sister, but I'm the oldest to do go off to do college. And my dad is I think in his family to do graduate from college. So I'll be the first to do graduate from college of my mom's ... my grandmother's grandchildren. So that's exciting. Were there negative images about W &L that made you think seriously about not coming? Nothing that I could see before I got here. I mean, I saw Confederate flags. It kinda made me think a little bit, but not stop and like "Well I'm not going there." What did it make you think when you saw them? It just. I was never big on the whole north/south thing, so it never affected me in that way. It was just like "I wonder what it actually means to do that person. Are they racist. Is there going to do be that type of problem here?" But on the surface it didn't seem like there was going to do be, so I didn't really worry about that. I didn't stop to do think about that. 13. Once you were enrolled, did you find the University to do be as you had expected? At first. At first I did. Tell me about that. Freshman year was fine for me, cause I went out a lot with my friends and stuff. I went out with the girls on my hall. freshman year I hung out probably with more white students than I did with the black students and I think we -My freshman year the black students were kind of all in their own kind of cliques, and I decided that I wasn't going to do get into that, because I remember, none of them went out, I think only one other black student went out that I can remember. Besides the couple of guys that had joined fraternities. But I figured there are my college years and I cannot just sit in my room. We may not be as happy here as we want to do be, and it may not be a school that has traditionally black fraternities and sororities, but I could not stay cooped up in my room on the weekends like the others did. So, it was fine for me at first. There were other contributing factors. I was kind of miserable my first semester my freshman year, but that was from medical problems. I had my period the entire first semester, so I cried the entire time. I was on the phone with my mom three times a day crying. It was very miserable. So after that it seemed OK and I found -I would hang out with my hall a lot, but then I would hang out on the guys' hall a lot and just hang out with them. I found that W &L guys are more down to do earth than the girls, so that was better for me. So when you say you went out, what do you mean by you went out. I went to do fraternity parties, but most of the time when I would hang out, like I said, it would be on the guys' hall. I had this one particular hall, like my best guy friend, who goes to do here, he lived on that hall, so I would hang out with them, and just watch movies and sit around and talk or whatever. I guess that was just more my escape, cause my roommate and I didn't really get along too well at times, but so that was my way of escaping. Was that a freshman dorm hall? Um hmm. So you said atfirst you found it to do be like you expected. And then what? Yeah, at first it seemed nice, but then, over the years I think it's gotten worse. It's gotten worse, or your perception ofit .. your experience... My perception. Like now I'm just ready for it to do be over with. It's frustrating, on weekends. I guess when you first get to do college its just like, OK you're away from home, you can party, don't have to do come in and tell your parents when you're coming in, and ... I never had that freedom when I was at home -very strict -So you get here and I guess you don't stop to do think about -this is not the type of party you probably would normally do. Like, I would go to do band parties and I don't even like bands. It's just like -but you made the sacrifice because you wanted to do get out. You wanted to do do things. But now I'm not as tolerant. It's just like I don't even feel like going out to do this type of party where it's just a bunch of drunk people that I don't want to do be around. It's not what I'm used to do being around, and if I want.. I want to do party the way I want to do party. I like the club atmosphere, and I like when they have DJs and stuff like that, but so that aspect of it .. .I guess it's just mainly that, because everyone needs an out, after a stressful week, everyone wants to do get out, so it's like -you have your stressful week, and then what? so that's kind of frustrating and like I said, I just think it's gotten worse. I mean it's good that we all kind of go out now, there's more of the black students go out and that has made it.. So what do you do when you go out? We go to do the DJ parties, and sometimes we have parties, like tonight we have a party in the Delt house. So that's fun, and I hang out with friends over at VMI a lot., There's a guy I graduated from high school with that goes there, so we hang out. So, I'm content now with watching a movie. I've gotten to do the point where it's not that -maybe because I've been so busy -but it's not that big a deal to do go out to do a fraternity party any more. But I think that's a combination of me being tired a lot, like from basketball, during basketball season I was just like, I'm too tired to do even think about going out, and I had. too much work," I think it's a combination of things. I just don't like being in an environment where everyone is so sloppy. I mean I understand everyone wants to do have a good time and everything, and I'm not being judgmental, but it's not my preference. If you want to do drink, that's fine, because before I came to do college I didn't drink, but I do drink some now, but it may be like once a month, and it's not as heavy as people do here and I think it's just out of control and I don't like being around that, so... So when you say you like the club atmosphere, describe to do do me what a club atmosphere is like. I guess it's just people dancing and I guess it's more so the kind of music I like and they're not all falling all over top of you just from being drunk. It may be crowded but I don't mind the crowd because its not like someone's bumping into me because they can't stand up. It's more, I don't want to do say wild, but it's a different type of thing., You like dress differently when go out to do a club, or whatever, and I'm from near DC, that's where I go, and I just started going clubbing this summer, but just like -a DJ party is different than the party we'll have in the Delt house, just because the music's different. We don't have to do cater -the DJ we'll have tonight is the DJ that DJs for some W &L fraternity parties, but there'll be completely different type of music because he'll be catering to do us tonight and it's the music that I like, so it'll be .. I mean I like some of the music that they have at some of the fraternity parties, but after a while you go "Oh gosh, come on," and you get frustrated and just want to do go home. You said, atfirst it was like you expected and later it wasn't and you described that as mostly the social scene? Yeah Were there other things? I think it's just mostly the social scene. It just gets frustrating cause it seems like everyone -I know everyone's not happy here, but it seems like so many people have such a good time, and I feel like, gosh, these are my college years, I should be living it up, but -I guess I knew coming here I'd be making somewhat of a sacrifice, just because I knew there were not a lot of minorities, and I knew it wasn't going to do be the kind of experience that some of my other friends were going to do have at their schools, but I thought -I mean I can deal with it but there's times when it gets really frustrating and I feel like lashing out and just going home or getting away from here. So I think it's mainly social. I don't .. no other .. , I mean there's been a couple of other little problems or whatever, but I think the major part of it is the social scene. Because I know I have to do come here to do work hard, so ..That perspective of the school hasn't changed, .. And the couple ofother little problems were .. Um. I, just when we had, ..I had .. I guess there was a guy, freshman year, after me and my boyfriend decided to do date other people, that his fraternity just totally ridiculed him because I was black and he was white and they gave him the worst. It was amazing to do me, cause I've never had someone not be able to do really hang out with me in public because I was black, because where I'm from that's just not, it's just something you see all the time, and I know there's places like that, but I didn't really expect, I guess I never really thought it would happen to do me. So that's very frustrating. And me and the guy are still really good friends now, but if I go and hang out with him, or whatever, and some of his fraternity brothers are over at his apartment, I have to do wait to do tiptoe out after they're passed out or asleep or whatever. And it's been very frustrating, and he feels it, and he hates that it's like that, but at the same time he says he doesn't feel like he's a strong enough person to do just be like "I don't care . " I mean he stands up for me, but at the same time, these are his fraternity brothers and he doesn't want to do totally caste them away either. So I guess we have this kind of like understanding and I understand that not everyone can just say, you know "Whatever, I'm not going to do tolerate them" because I guess he feels that he feels like he is not too happy at this school either, and he feels like he just can't put out all the people in his like that are somewhat.. And even though he doesn't get along wonderfully with them, but they are his fraternity brothers so he has to do kinda have some type of camaraderie with them. And then the other experience was I had an experience with -I'm a dorm counselor right now, and last year -I'm only a junior, but 1st year I took over for one of the dorm counselors when she went away for the spring, and I found alcohol in the hall, and I decided to do go to do the EC with the problem cause there was a big, there was just -the girl blatantly lied to do my face about having alcohol in her room, and I gave her a chance to do change her answer several times. I kept saying, do you have alcohol, No, Is anyone drinking in your room, No, Have you been drinking in your room, No, So there's no alcohol, you haven't been drinking, no one's been drinking .., No No No. And then I opened the door. There was like cases of stuff everywhere, and I mean she blatantly lied to do my face, and when we went to do the EC she was not found guilty, and I just don't think it was fair. I think it had a lot to do do with me being black. It's sad that it's like that, but I think that's what it came down to do. I had no other belief.. They said it was reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt that what?, That she lied? Yeah. There was reasonable doubt.. It was me and her in the hallway and she had a friend visiting from I think Radford, and her friend from Radford was in the hallway with us, but her friend from Radford's not bound by our honor code in any way, so she can go into a trial situation -I mean it's not a court out in the public, it's our private little thing, so she can say whatever she wants to do say, and I remember that night when I think the secretary, Amy Gorham called me and told me that she was found not guilty because there was reasonable doubt about what had happened. So basically to do me that was saying even though you are the dorm counselor and even though you are the authoritative figure here, we don't believe you. So I was very angry after that. That, that just made me very furious at this place and it just -from then on. I mean I have faith in the honor code we have here. I still have faith in it, but I do not believe it's very fair at times. Because ofmy -before I would never have thought that, but being in that experience now I just don't.. That was last spring? That was last spring term. So how did that change your year, this year? Um, It's been fine, but now I just know not to do be so .. I keep my eyes open. I don't think that ­not that I always thought highly of this place, but I held things highly, held my views highly of everything. Like, "Oh the honor code." But I just don't, not it's like "Whatever." I mean I still abide by it, but I just don't think that when some people go in there they're going to do get a fair trial. I don't know of any other minority students that have had to do go through that, but with my experience, I just don't trust it. I mean, someone came up[ to do me, I think it was Sandy Hooper, who's the president now, He came up to do me after it was all over with, and he told me "I don't know what happened in there, but I thought it was the most ridiculous thing that she's found not guilty .. He wasn't in there.. ? He was in there, but he only could observe. He couldn't make any decisions. He said "I sat there and listened to do that story and I don't see how they could say there was reasonable doubt." So when someone like that can come up and tell you that it's kinda, then I knew it wasn't just me. Cause I thought "is it me,?" and then it's just frustrating cause you go through that whole thing and I still had to do live on the hall with the girl. And her parents came down .. It was an emotionally disturbing experience, and it was just -it just made me very angry at being here. I just didn't like it. And there have been many times I've wanted to do transfer. Are you still a dorm counselor. Um hm. And I'll be one next year too, so it didn't change in that aspect. I'll still be a dorm counselor[] and I haven't had any problems like that this year. Knock on wood I won't have any next year too. If the school differed from the way it seemed when you first heard about it or visited the campus, please describe how it differed. 14. Please describe what you consider to do be your greatest challenge at Washington and Lee. How have you dealt with it? Hmmm. I guess, probably time management. Because I was used to do -I don't know if a lot of other people would say, just being around so many white people, but I've always been around white people and I've never had a problem with it. So that part wasn't a challenge to do me, and accepting that not everybody's going to do accept me, That wasn't a problem cause I had that problem with black people at home. They thought I was too, like, acting like a white girl because I spoke properly, or something. So I had that problem. So I guess time management because in high school it seems like things came to do me so easily. I don't know, in high school you could do well on tests without studying, it -I mean there were things that were challenging, but nowhere near as hard as they are here, so here it's like now I play basketball, so I have to do do all this, manage my time with basketball and academics. During basketball season how I deal with it is it fixes itself because I have no free choice but after a game come and do work, or before I leave for a game do work after practice. It's very structured. Then when basketball season's over with, I just have to do put in my mind that I have to do do this and I have to do get it done. I guess that's how I've learned to do do it. Basketball has helped me structure my time management. 15. How has your academic performance at Washington and Lee compared with your performance in high school? It's no where near as high as high school, but it's like I said. High school was no where near as hard, it wasn't as challenging. So it's lower her, and it's not where I want it to do be. But I try, and as long as I'm trying, I can't get too down on myself. My mom's more frustrated with me, but my dad's more understanding. He goes "Well, as long as I know that you're trying . .I can see that you are trying, I can accept the grade that you get, because .. I guess my mom probably expected it to do carry over, and for some people it does, but for me it didn't, so .. But, I keep trying. As long as I keep trying that's all I can do. 16. What academic resources have you used at Washington and Lee? x Undergraduate library, and Netscape. Being a computer science major I use a lot of Netscape and Internet stuff, like I've done that looking for jobs, and programming stuff, of course I use a lot of software in the career development and placement office. That's helped me. I guess just basically those things. Oh, talk to do my professors. How does that go for you? That's pretty good. I've only had like. They've always been very helpful when I've gone in. the hardest time I have with professors would be with my computer science professors, and I'm not ­I guess it's because it's my major and they expect more, and it's kind of hard for me to do go, because sometimes I feel like they think -because we have people in our class that are just like geniuses and probably don't need to do be taught this stuff, and then you have people like me. I need to do be taught this stuff and I need it to do be very clear to do me, because I can't just pick up on it like that, and sometimes I think they get frustrated. Especially, I have a real problem with the head of the department. And it's so frustrating because I think he's just a brilliant man, but I think he should write books and not teach, because I don't think he teaches very well. And, going to do him doesn't make it that much better, because even though maybe its on a one on one basis it's still like "What are you saying?" It's still .. I'm still clueless and I don't like that, but I guess it's not really his fault and I don't think he really understands and we try to do tell him in evaluations and that still doesn't work. But they've been helpful, it's sometimes he seems just kind of short. You mean kind ofabrupt? Yeah, kind of abrupt. Sometimes when I ask my professor, him, I just feel like he thinks "Are you stupid for asking that question?" But he never comes out and says anything, but I can kind of tell, but it doesn't seem like his personality. I think he's just so smart and I guess he expects everyone else to do be there, not exactly his level, but caught up with everything. Science library Computer facilities. Writing Center. Tutors in the disciplines. Study groups. Public lectures on academic subjects. Language lab. Visiting professors in their offices. Study skills courses Do you have suggestions for the development of these or other facilities? I think the library could probably use more computers with Internet access. They have a lot where you can get to do the card catalogue, but I think they only have, I know two upstairs and then a couple downstairs. and I think they need a lot. You mean the ones in the lab aren't all connected to do the Internet? The ones in Robinson are, but in the library not all are connected to do Netscape. They have a few upstairs and a few downstairs, but I think everything should be connected to do Netscape, because the Internet's just huge now. I understand they don't want everyone taking up -There can be fewer computers connected just to do the card catalogue, or Annie and the periodicals. But I think a lot more should be connected to do the Internet. That's the only thing I guess, there, that I would suggest. [Bob, I was reeling with this person and didn't refocus her on the rest ofthe list ofchoices for this question. .. sorry.] 17. What factors contribute or contributed to do your selection of a major course of study? Promise ofearning a handsome salary after graduation, Interest in the particular academic discipline, College friends recommended this major, Adult relative recommendation etc. Other I guess I started taking computer math and computer science my sophomore or junior year in high school, and I just love it. I like logical stuff. I'm not big on math. I like putting stuff together and solving problems. So, at first I thought I wanted to do go into engineering, before I came here, Then it was just like, no I don't want to do go into engineering. I like computers. But, I don't think I know enough about the hardware, I don't think I know enough about computers. To do be a major I just don't know enough. some of these people are self taught and they just get in there and start fooling around with their computers and I just don't have the time nor the patience, but I think that would make me such, It would make me that much better, but I don't know where to do begin with that. But I think that was the reason. Logical stuff. I like it. And I knew with computer science also -I want to do be financially comfortable, I don't want to do have to do struggle and scrape. So I think that'll help me. 18. Have you changed majors since you have been enrolled at Washington and Lee? No. Ifyes, please describe that change. 19. Ifyou saw a person or group of persons lying, stealing or cheating would you report it as an honor violation? Please elaborate. Yes. Yeah, I still would, even after my experience. I don't know how I would handle it. At first it was hard for me even to do so that. But, because I was -I went over it in my mind for a while .. "Should I.. or should I.." So I guess I can't say yes so quickly. And Maybe after my experience I can still say yes because I don't know if I just. I mean I've done it before, but like I said, I just don't trust it, anymore, so I don't know if it would even be worth it anymore. And that's sad, but it's because of how I think they handled the situation, so I think I'd have to do second guess it. So, your first answer was yes, and your second answer is .. And now that I thought of it -I said yes because I did it before, but when I think about the experience I went through with it, it would be a harder thing to do do, and I'd be more hesitant, and I'd kind of have doubts that it would actually work. 20. Do you find Washington and Lee professors easy or difficult to do approach? Please describe in what way they are easy or difficult. For the most part I think they are very easy to do approach. Very flexible with office hours, you can call them at home. I just think that's great. I think that's great. Have you been able to do establish close working relationships with a member or with members of the W &L faculty? I guess not so much in my major, or whatever. I guess when big projects arise. That's when you have the closer working relationship. And like I said, when you can call a professor at home and I just know .. But the person I['m close to do are the athletic department, my coaches and stuff like that. I've had dinner at the Howisons, and I've had dinner with the Elrods, and I was a summer scholar councilor, so I worked with Mimi, so I think that's a close working relationship. If I ever were to do get in that position again, which is very good. I don't know, none of my friends can say "I have worked with the president's wife, or they know me by name" or anything like that. So I think that's very special. 21. What has been your experience at W &L with regard to social life? I talked about that, so there's nothing more to be said particularly. How important to you is alcohol at a social event or social engagement? It's not. There are time where I think it would be nice. I think it's nice to have a cocktail party before FD, but if you're not in a fraternity or invited to a fraternity event, it's not something that you really ever have. I think that sort of thing would be nice just because it's sort of like the prom, getting ready and going to dinner, when you know that the rest ofthe campus has something else to do between dinner and the dance, it would be nice, not necessarily for the alcohol, but for the social aspect of it. To meet the other dates and stuff like that. So I think that would be nice. Is that something the Chavis House could do? I don't know if they are allowed to have alcohol like that. I'm not sure. I know that the people who live there probably have alcohol in their rooms, but I don't know about in a party atmosphere they're allowed to. How important to you are drugs at a social event? I think they have no place. I am very anti-drug use. Have you run across it much? I know a lot of people who smoke marijuana and I've heard of, like, cocaine and crack and stuff, like here, but I've never come in contact with it. I've been around people smoking marijuana but I won't touch the stuff. Does it come up often in your social encounters? Not the heavy stuff, but sometimes at a party you can smell marijuana. But as far as actually seeing people smoke it, maybe like at the big concerts they have, at the Pavilion, because you don't really have -you're packed in, it's like a bigger space, and you don't have just W&L students there. I think when W&L students do this, they 're more tabu about it and they'll go somewhere. 22. What experiences, ifany, have you had with Greek organizations on campus? None, I guess, just going to fraternity houses and partying. That's basically it. How would you evaluate or describe any experiences you may have had? I guess I talked about that before. I mean, at times it's fun and at times it's not. The sloppy drunk issue and, like I'm not big on bands. It depends, I guess, because there have been a couple of bands that I have enjoyed. It's not like I just like R&B or I'm not even that big on Rap. My favorite type of music is Oldies, anyway. I love oldies and I'm not going to get that anywhere. I guess it's mainly just the people that are around. 23. Evaluate your experiences with regards to athletic teams/athletic facilities/and physical education classes. I think they need to do that better for women. The team programs: as far as athletics are concerned I think the guys just have preferential treatment. I know here lacrosse is supported more probably than any other sport, lacrosse and tennis. The tennis center and everything, they've done well with that. But I know for us, I don't think we get the same treatment as the men's basketball team. I think that purchases -I think they get more gear and I don't know if they have to pay for it out of their pocket. My understanding is that they don't, not all of it. There have been a couple of things that we have had to pay for out of our pockets. We can't get new uniforms, and we desperately need them. Like for our tournament, we went to Pennsylvania and one, they went to California and New York. Just little things that you can see. I think basketball is too demanding, but I just can't let it go. I've tried letting it go at certain points, but it's just like, I've played basketball since I was in 61 h grade, so it's kind of hard to let it go. At this point, I've like one more year. In terms of time, I think it's probably more demanding than any other-I mean, we play 3 games a week, and we practice -we're probably with the team on the days we don't have games for 2 Yi hrs, and then you have to lift. By the time you get back to your room and shower, it's just too demanding, and I don't know how you can really express that. Because I guess the answer that the coaches will give is that it is making you better. But at the same time, this is an academic school, not an athletic school. I think it is hard for the coaches to see that. We've tried to express that to them, but I don't think it's clicking. You can tell. The tensions start flaring for everybody and they start getting really stressed, for the players, and you can see from our performance on the court. We get tired and frustrated with one another and with the coaches. And you want to kind of rebel. And the season goes on. I wish there were a way for it to be practiced in Olin B, say, 1 Vi hrs, and you can get a lot done in 1 Vi hrs. That would help so much more. It would make a world of difference. And I think 5 P.E. classes is a bit much. We're not majoring in Phys Ed here, so I don't see why you have to have 5. It's more of a hassle and signing up for that is ridiculous. I think also, if you play Varsity sports, you should be able to get the credit as long as you play, because you've put way more into a Varsity sport than you're going to put into a P.E. class. So I don't really understand that either. What about the facilities in general? I think they're fine. I love our locker room, and especially when we decorate it, and my high school gym was bigger than this, but I think they need to keep up the foor a little better because it is very slick. I don't know if they are not cleaning it well or they need to repolish it every big break, or something like that. But I guess with people coming in with intramurals, the floor gets dirty easily. I guess the only thing would be the courts sometimes. 24. How would you characterize your opportunities for "dating" while enrolled at Washington and Lee? I told you about that one experience. And, I mean, it's -like, a lot of my friends won't date white guys. I have no problem dating people outside of my race, so VMI's always an option. So that's where we go as far as getting somebody to date, but it's not something that would normally happen. I mean, last year I went to FD with a fraternity guy that, I think is more so -I think his friend knew I didn't have a date, he didn't have a date, and it was a last minute thing. And he was a guy that could deal with the fact of me being black, or whatever. But it's not something that would regularly occur. Dating is not really an option here, for minorities, unless it's with someone from another school. 25. Have you ever considered transferring from Washington and Lee to another college/ university? Yes. Many times. Freshman year, sophomore year, this year. But it's too late now. At this point I won't consider it any longer because it's not something I really have to do. I can't consider it now. It's not practical. I don't want to have to do extra years as an undergrad, and I figure I've stuck it out this long, I can go longer. I can finish it off, and it's going to be worth it once I finish here. But, it's frustrating and it weighs on you at times and it just seems like, when I go visit my friends at other schools, they have more of a -I don't think people here really "hang out."Just kinda can kick back, like with girl friends or guy friends and just sit around and shoot the breeze. I think people in general here the main focus is "how drunk can I get tonight when I go out." It's like, because since everything is so fraternity-based you can't -watching a movie is something you do because you're too tired of partying. I don't think that happens too much. It's not like "why don't we just get a movie tonight," or "why don't we play cards." or board games. I like that kind of stuff, and my friends at other schools, we do that, we sit around and play video games and I like that. It seems like more. of a laid back type of atmosphere. What do you think makes it different? I don't know. I know other schools work as hard, because I guess the school I visit most would be William & Mary. I know they work just as hard over there, but I think that because the school is not fraternity based and there's other things to do. Like they have little delis they can go to at night, right connected within the campus. It's part of the town but it's right near the campus. It's up the street from my friend's house, so we just go there sometimes and people drink there, but it's not to get drunk. There's a huge screen TV there where you can watch games. You can eat there. I guess is comparable to the Palms, but in a bigger atmosphere, and there's more of them, and they're like across the street from each other. It's really just little different things like that, like "just let's go and hang out in the sunken gardens or whatever. People play frisbee and stuff around here, but something about that place is completely different to me. Every time I come back from visiting now, I get depressed. I don't know why I do this to myself, but I get depressed when I come back from William and Mary. Some people have said that we need to physically make some more things available here. I think there do need to be things besides fraternities and I think Michelle Richardson, she is working at doing that type thing. But the school just doesn't support it. Last night I was over at the gym and they the FunFix thing. I don't know if you've ever been to King's Dominion, but it's a big amusement park where you put your head on someone else's body or you do videotapes. Those things cost so much at amusement parks. Last night it was free over at the gym. There were probably at most 10 people there at a time. And it was the minority students, because we weren't going out to fraternities. And I came back and told the girls on my hall, why don't you guys go, and they're, like, "Oh! Fun!" And they went over and did it. The word is out. You can't keep reminding people, but I don't think they stop to think about stuff like that. They're just like wondering what party is going on tonight, and that's the only place I can consider being. I think we need a University Center with stuff. Most ofthat University Center is offices, it's not activities. I think it should have a video store in it, an arcade, big screen TV where people can all get together and sit around, a game room where you can have board games. I think they can do so much, and it would be so much better. Other stuff can be done. Why/why not? Ifyes, what factor(s) influenced you to stay? I knew it would beneficial for me. It's good to graduate with a degree from W&L. Because of the reputation of the school. And I didn't want to lose the few friends that I -I just didn't want to start all over. I probably would have been happier somewhere else, but it may as well be a thought in your mind, that if you go somewhere else you're going to be happier. But you always just can't be happy, so I figured I just stick it out. The factors that got me to W &L, its smallness and quaintness, things like that, I had to consider if I transferred somewhere else. I would have transferred to William & Mary, and I knew I'm not going to have that. It'll be a class of 100 or so, there won't attendance, the professors are not going to care as much, so those things helped me to stay. Sometimes I think I'm glad I stayed, and sometimes I think I'm not. So I don't have a solid answer on the good decision that I've stayed. 26. Have you had a paidjob on campus (including work-study)? No, the only thing I did, like I said, was Summer Scholars, and that was not during school. Ifso, has this influenced your level ofsatisfaction at W &L? No, it didn't change anything. 27. Would you be willing to recruit other students for Washington and Lee either as a student yourselfor as part ofan alumni program? Please elaborate. I don't directly go out and recruit. I wouldn't do that because I don't think I would have enough positive -I have positive things to say about this school, but when the question arises, "What is your experience and what do you think? Has it been good for you overall?" I don't think I'd be very influential in someone coming here. Like I think that it's important when minority students come here to visit the school they get a taste like what I got when I came to visit. But I think it's so important that we have this forum, where we tell them that this has been our experience, do you have any problems with it, they'll ask us questions, .............. And I don't think they're going to have a strong minority population at this school as long as the students that are here are not really happy. I don't have one definite thing to say that can make us happy. And I honestly don't think much can change because the school is so traditional and it's so old and set, and you have people with money here that make the difference, and not just the people. Now we ask some background information: 28. In what geographical location did you grow up: Country: State: Virginia In what type ofarea or community did you spend most ofyour growing up years? Urban Suburban : Woodbridge, a suburb ofD.C. Rural 29. Describe the type ofhigh school you attended. Urban Suburban X Rural Predominantly Black White MixedX 30. Please give the kin relationship(s) between you and family members in your home when you were growing up. My mom and my dad and my younger sister. 31. What was the highest level ofeducation achieved by your parents, guardians, or others with whom you lived when you were growing up? My dad graduated from college in New Mexico and my mom graduated from high school. She didn't get a college degree. She's taking classes, some at Nova and now she'd doing Stringer College. She stopped for a while. I'm really proud of her. Sometimes we get in these little arguments, "But Mom, you don't understand 'cause you never went to college." And I don't mean to put her down. I'm not trying to, but I'm trying to make her understand that it is different. But she is getting her degree now and she would like for all of us, since I'11 be graduating next year and my sister will be graduating from high school next year, she would like to graduate from college, so we can all graduate at the same time. She doesn't know if she can do it because she works full-time. She's been with this company over 20 years. In those 20 years, you used to be able to go to work without a college degree, and she makes almost if not more than my father, with a college degree, because in that day you could do that. Now you can't do that. You need a college degree just about everywhere you go. So I'm really proud of her. What are the occupations or professions ofyour parents or guardians? My mom is an office administrator at Hughes Aircraft Company and my dad is a budget analyst for the Navy. 32. As compared to other W &L students, how would you characterize your overall social class position (based on parents' education and family income)? I don't know. It always says W &L students are rich. I don't consider myself rich by any means. I would say, maybe upper middle-class, because I don't see myself as low as some ofthe minorities, or white people that I see, not here, and don't think many of the minorities here are very -I mean, I know some do not have all that I have. One of my friends always tells me that I'm well off. But when I stop and compare it to people here, I don't think so. How do you think this has affected your experience? I don't think it has affected it. Because with the true friends that I have here, white and black, we don't get into money. That's not what our friendship is based on, so we don't really discuss it. We might say, "oh my mom's a this, or my dad's that, or whatever," but beyond that, it's not "Well, how much do your parents make?" We make little jokes, "I can tell that person has money," or whatever. 33. In general how do you think about yourselffirst at Washington and Lee -­as a member ofa particular racial/ethnic/national/gender group, or as a student? A black student. Black first. I can't -it's the first thing you see, especially here. Ifl were at a school where you see more black people, it wouldn't matter, but here, people don't know ­ think people know my name because I've made an effort to interact with people. But for people who don't know me, it's the tall black girl. So I'm a "black person" here first. Please explain. 34. How homogeneous do you believe black students are on this campus? In answering please consider racial identification, political perspective, and/or social class position. I don't think, maybe because we really don't discuss it that much, I think we're all kind of different. Because you have -unless we were all from the same area. One of my friends is poor and other -I don't think we're that different and I don't think it's that broad, but I don't think we're all different. We've all had our experiences, others have been around more blacks than whites and have never been around a lot of white people, whereas, myself, I have been. There are little differences, but I don't think that it's so major, like she's completely -we all find a way to bring it back together. Political, we don't really get into that. It's not a big discussion with us. My freshman year was a big clique for a long time. There aren't that many of us and there were cliques. It has loosened up, and is completely gone. And I think that's for the better because it has made us stronger as a group. Before it was just like, How are we ever going to get along for all the little cliques. Now, there might be a couple of people who hang out with each other, but I wouldn't call it cliquey, like it was before, because ifl hang out with this group, I can also hang out with this group and I can also.hang out with this group and that group. What made the difference, do you think? I don't know. I think it came with the sophomore class now. They would go out and interacted with others who were not black, and I think that made a difference. 35. How similar or different do you believe blacks and whites are on this campus? Consider the same categories that are mentioned in number 34 above and add any other factors that you deem important. I think a lot of white people are basically the same. They may be from completely different areas. A lot of people come to this school because of the tradition, of it not being diverse, and a lot them don't think we belong here. I know about each other's monetary situation. A lot of fraternity stuff is based on that. So they know these things. Whereas, I don't know if some of my friends do. I think a lot of these people here know what they're friends' parents do or not how much money they make or that they are loaded or not loaded. Sometimes that makes them affiliate with certain people. For me, I could care less if you're poor or if you're rich. If you are the type of person I like to hang around, let's be friends. So you 're saying that the difference between the white and black communities is that the whites are very conscious ofclass position and money whereas blacks are not as conscious ofit? Right. I think so. And I think part of it has to do with because black people have always been on the bottom. We don't think of it as a class struggle for us. I don't think it starts here, I think it's part of the whole experience that white people have. So you would say that black students and white students are fairly different from each other? Yeah. There are the exceptions, but for the most part. 36. Do you believe the size ofthe black student enrollment at Washington and Lee is adequate or inadequate? I think there should be more of us here, but I though I would like to see more, for this place I think it's adequate, for Washington and Lee. It's not expected that there should be a lot of black students here because it's not a diverse black. Do you remember the movie with the Jewish guy who -he was a Jewish guy and the school uses him for football, and there comes up an honor court case, and he didn't cheat but because he's Jewish it was said that he cheated. His friends didn't know he was Jewish, but it came out that because he lied about that he's probably lying about the cheating. At the end there's a big quote that said "You used me for football, now I'm going to use you to get through college." A lot of times I feel like you're using me, like a quota or whatever, to say "We do have black students at our school." That's how I think a lot of us feel. I think I feel that way because I don't see so much happening to make us feel like we part of this community. A lot of people think you shouldn't have to go out of your way to make it: you chose to go here. We shouldn't have to go out of our way to make you feel welcome here. But, you kind of have to. Ifyou want to keep up this -if you think you are a diverse school for some reason, then this school is far from diverse, but I think some people actually do think it is diverse, while it's not. Then you're an advocate for the school, but ­ Who do you think is setting that tone, is designing it to be that way? I don't know. It starts with the tradition and then, the student's that come here with the attitude that this school is whatever per cent white, and that's how it needs to be and I don't think black people belong at this school. And I don't think I mentioned doing as much as I can to recruit. I mean, there are more foreigners than there are blacks. And to me it's easier to go right here within your country than going to another country. I don't see a real problem with that. I think it's great that foreigners come to our school, too, just as it's great that black people can come here and have the opportunity to come here. But I think they need to try harder to recruit and make those of us that are here, so that we can be positive in what we have to say to the people they do try to recruit. Do you believe the number ofblack professors is adequate or inadequate? I don't think it's very adequate. I think there could be more. I mean, there's qualified professors certainly. I don't know if black professors don't apply or if-I don't know enough about it to say, but I think there could be more. I'd like to see more. Do you believe the number ofblack administrators is adequate or inadequate? Explain. That's also about the same. I don't know how it's looked at but I think there could be more black administrators to interact, I mean, to help everyone, not just the black students. Ifwe're given equal opportunity, then we need to be equal. 37. Should the university offer activities designed to bring new black students together? Activities once they are here? I don't know what the University really could do. I think there should be black fraternities or sororities, but at the same time, there are not enough people here to keep a chapter going . We would like to bring a black sorority here because there are more women than men who would join [such a group], but I don't know that we could keep it up. That would be one thing to help the students come together. Ifnot, why not? Ifyes... do you have suggestions? ... Has the Chavis House played a role in your life at W &L? Please describe. Not really. I don't go over there just to hang out. I go over there for my meetings and ifthere's a party or to cook. It's not been anything that's been detrimental to my succeeding here. It is a good place to know I can go and that it is kind of"our" place. But it's not as though if it wasn't there I wouldn't survive here. Has the Minority Student Association played a role in your life at W &L? Please describe. It's been good, but I think it could be more active. That starts with us, the people, we need to do more as a group. I think we're kind of lazy. I know every one is busy with separate things, but as a group I think we're lazy. I do participate and go to the meetings. Only time I miss is ifl have basketball. It's nice having parties, something else to do. It helps bring together the faces ofthe black students, so that it has been a positive experience in that sense. 38. Do you believe that it is important that courses in the humanities/social sciences include recognition or study ofworks by persons ofcolor? Yes, they're part of history, or they're part of change, we're part of change. So I don't understand why it wouldn't be. Ifyou think works by persons ofcolor should be included do you think the recognition was adequate, inadequate, or excessive? Please explain. Trying to think. I think there are courses that are available, but I have to wonder, when they have to limit the sizes of certain classes, is it because it is a topic on African-American history that you limit the class size. Do we have to get a new classroom because of that, because more people than what the school thought would enroll? I think the opportunity is there. The classes are there. Maybe not as many. It's kinda like in high school, where in Black History month, that's when we talk about black people -ifthey happen to show up in the book. Here, we do, like, Michelle Richardson did little programs with black history month. But probably some students didn't even realize it was black history month. I'd like to see a little bit more recognition, yes. 39. How wouldyou characterize the climate in the classroom for you [as a black student}? I think it's fine for me because I'm outspoken. I will speak my mind ifl feel a certain way. I have no problem saying, "Well, I disagree with that." I think I've never had a problem. Ifyou have encountered 'problems in the classroom, how have you dealt with those difficulties? 40. What is the role ofthe Office ofMinority Student Affairs? I really don't know. Is that Dean McCloud? I guess she's one of our supporters. I never really go in and talk to her about anything. She works, I guess, with the MSA group and stuff, but as far as seeing her and seeing the big changes she's making, I guess I wouldn't know because I've never experienced them. What do you know about what her role is designed to be? I really don't know. How can the role ofthis Office be improved? Maybe let us know what it's there for. Maybe I wasn't paying attention or maybe it wasn't said, I'm really not sure. When we get pamphlets at the beginning of the year, maybe there should be something, or when there is an informational meeting for minority, it should be said that "this is why we are here." I just don't remember if that was done. It might have been. I just don't know. 41. From whom do you receive the greatest emotional support on campus? Do not use name(s), but please describe the person(s) in terms ofrace, ethnicity, nationality, gender, and position (i.e. fellow student, faculty member, administrator, staffmember). Ifappropriate, include more than one individual and describe the type ofsituations in which the person provides emotional support (i.e. personal, family, religious, etc.) Girlfriends, a couple of my girlfriends and one particular guy friend I'm really close with. I guess two guy friends, but one's so busy this year that I never see him that much. Black and white. I guess if I get in a huge fight with ex-boyfriend, and I need to call somebody and vent, or I call the girlfriend or the guy friend. One of the guy friends is the guy I was telling you about. I kinda dated him freshman year, so I can still talk to him about stuff like that. So we can talk about anything. Or if I'm having problems at home, or my parents are pissing me off, or if I'm really stressed. Anything, I know I can turn to them for anything. What percentage ofyour friends are black, what white, and what international? I don't have international I think. Most of my close, close friends are black, I'd probably say 95%, and then a couple strong white friends, like maybe two strong white friends. 42. Have you experienced any discriminatory behavior on campus directed against yourself? What form did that behavior take (written remarks including graffiti, spoken remarks, physical assault, discriminatory treatment). Who was responsible for that behavior? Individual students Student groups Greek Non Greek Faculty Staff Security Nothing directly, like anything yelled out at me. But I can remember just those two experiences that would be what I thought was discriminatory and then with the guy in the fraternity and his friend. But that was more directed at him because of me, not directly at me. Leaving aside behavior, do you sense racial tensions on campus beyond what exists in the larger society? Ifso, how do you think such tensions could be eased within W &L? Yes, there are some people that won't look at you. They don't want you to be here. I mean it's been expressed in some -a friend told me it's been expressed in their class, "I don't think black people should be at this school" or a couple of my friends have walked past certain fraternity houses and had fake guns or whatever fired at them. It's just little things like that that are just not clearly racial tension -just little things. They're not little, but you know ... When they 've been walking by these fraternities, is it clear that it's because they 're black? Oh yes, because they've been called "nigger" as they pass by a window, or whatever. It's expressly because they're black and not just because people are having "fun." And it was a traditionally racist fraternity, anyway. So there's not much else that you can read into that. Do you think that these racial tensions exist beyond the way they exist in the larger society? For me, it seems like it is so. Because I don't experience that at home, maybe only a little bit. Here it seems so concentrated and you have so many people coming from that kind of up­bringing or those beliefs. So you have more people compacted into this area and it seems that it's more concentrated here. Whereas if I were in the Deep South, living at home, I might see it more than I do at home. For this environment compared to my home environment, yes. My home town has a lot more diversity. 43. Aside from the Honor System do you believe that the student Executive Committee, the Student Conduct Committee or other University judicial committees treat black and white students equally fairly? I wouldn't know because I've never had any experience with them or talked to anyone who has had direct experience with them where I would be able to judge. 44. Do you believe that the honor system is applied in an even-handed way to black and white students? No. 45. How would you evaluate student publications (i.e. the Ring-tum Phi, the Trident, etc.), the student radio and television stations with regards to opportunities for black students to participate. I think the opportunity is there for us to participate but I don't know that we go out and grab hold of the opportunity. I am sure the opportunity is there. How would you evaluate them with regard to their treatment ofnews about black students? But in the treatment of news, I think now things have become kind of blatant. I know there's freedom of the press, but I think things are blatant now and people just say whatever they want to say. Not necessarily the Trident or the Phi. I remember the Hole incident when Spike Lee was here. That was kind of bothersome. But in the playbill for FD, there was a comment made about there being two different bands, there was a black band in the smaller gym and it said," The Tyrone Smith Review Band -who would want to jump on stage with a 5'7" black man, certainly not W &L students." I just didn't understand, that made me very mad. I called my mom and she was like "Golly, a year more, a year more!" When you can be that blatant about things and you have black students who are going to read this, why print that? Obviously there were other complaints about that, I don't know if it was from black students or not, because we asked one of the people who sat on the committee in writing the play book, we asked who wrote this up, he knew his name immediately. He said, "We've had some problems with that." So, if you knew, you should have read over that type of thing. I don't understand why it didn't come up when you're reviewing it. So I think people are kind ofloose in what they say. And that's the treatment with the whole gay and lesbian organization trying to come up on campus. Other schools have it. It's because we're so taboo and so hush-hush, and nothing can be out of the ordinary. They're not flamboyant, to me they are not trying to cause any problems, they are just trying to express how they feel and get the organization out there. And I don't see a problem with that. I don't agree with their lifestyle, but they should have equal treatment to get their view out there. It's because of the people at this school who just don't want to accept change. So your object to the thoughtless comments that are made. Yes, I think a lot ofthe comments are very thoughtless. 46. Do you feel that black students at Washington and Lee today have problems that are basically different from, or basically similar to those ofwhites? Please describe in what way you feel they are different or similar. I think they're different problems as far as us being the minority here. We have to deal that. But at the same time I think the white students feel the stress differently, like the getting drunk, the eating disorders. We do have black students who do drink and do smoke, or whatever, but I can probably name one or two, whereas the white kids, I can name almost the entire student body. There are different problems like that, stress and having to look a certain way. The typical body or whatever, and doing everything in your power for women to look like that, we don't worry about that. It's not a concern of ours. Its getting through this school, that's our main focus. Getting this four years over with. *47. Sex F *48. Age? 20 *49. Year in college? JUNIOR *50. Cumulative grade point average [as ofFall 1996]? 2.344 *51. How do you identify yourself in terms of nationality? AMERICAN 52. How do you identify yourself in terms of race? Black 53. Are there additional comments you wish to do make about any aspects of Washington and Lee? I would like to see some changes in traditions, but I don't think much will change, and I don't think that's me being pessimistic about the situation, I think it's being very realistic. I think it has very good qualities and I don't think it's the school itself, but it's the people. I don't want to say it has nothing to do with Washington and Lee, because tradition is a huge part of Washington and Lee. But because you have white people who come here with the attitude of this is how it should be and I'm from the South, or whatever, I think those are the reasons why it can't really change, better in the area of diversity. I would like to see more interaction between black students and white students and the racial tension go down, people being accepting and not being so conscious of "I am around a black person." It should be "I'm just around another person." Everyone is so color conscious here, and it's ridiculous. That really needs to change, it's not being so conscious of the color of the person you're with or the lifestyle of the person you're with. Be conscious of who that person really is. I don't think that people here take the time to learn about who you are, and I think the people who think they are really friends, they're surface friends. I think there are so many surface people here, in friendship and they way they speak. They'll flower in your face and behind your back it's completely different. Because everything here is how you look to other people, now how you feel about yourself.