Laborde interview

[Begin Tape 1, Side 2]
Warren: You mentioned how Washington & Lee students govern themselves. Tell
me how you learned about the Honor System.
Laborde: I think when I was a freshman, although a lot of people complained that it
wasn't a good-enough process. I thought they kind of threw it at us early. We had a
big presentation by students about what the Honor System meant and what it was,
and pretty much the rules of the game, if you will, and repercussions if you failed to
abide by the rules, in front of us as freshmen, during freshmen orientation. A lot of
people say that that wasn't enough, because you're so new and you're having so
much thrown at you, it didn't sink in enough. Being in that form of a presentation, I
think they've developed a couple of videos since then to kind of break it in
differently in a different manner. However, really, just the fact that you had it-at

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least I had it stuck in my head that any infraction, no matter how small, is
considered stealing and that we had such incredible freedoms, I mean, it's not
considered stealing, it's considered an infraction, period, punishable by the most
serious of punishments, which was expulsion. And the fact that we had such
incredible freedoms was, for me, in and of itself so unique. No one else I knew,
none of my other friends in my class of two hundred and fifty high school students
had anything remote to that, that I've gathered, based on discussions when we'd get
back during the early holidays and talk about things. They couldn't believe that we
had unsupervised test-taking and we could schedule our own exams and we had all
kinds of different assignments that, in their instances, people, plagiarism, stuff like
that, which you could get away with at most other schools, just wasn't done, things
like that. Yet we didn't have-not that I remember, at least, we didn't have too
many instances of people getting kicked out for cheating as a freshman, that I
remember.

         I remember towards the end of my freshman year, a girl got kicked out a
couple of days before graduation, and a lot of people questioned whether or not
what she had done was truly cheating. I didn't know her very well. I figured, you
know, they wouldn't have found her guilty if she hadn't been cheating. As a senior,
I talked to one of my friends who was president or on the EC. He pretty much told
me, he's like, you know-we're not supposed to talk about anything, but I can tell
you this much, that there are representatives from every class and he said that pretty
much 100 percent of the time, it's not just a majority that rules based on all the
evidence and what's there, that you either bring them up on trial or after trial. I
guess a jury actually decides a trial, if I remember correctly, but that you bring them
up on trial and accuse them of cheating based on the evidence that the witnesses
have presented. He says that by far and away the majority of the time, it is a high
majority of people who do believe that the person was guilty based on what they

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have been told and that it is indeed beyond reasonable doubt. The guy who told me
this is really straight up, and I didn't see there being too much of a problem with the
Honor Code, as far as everyone respecting it.

         But really on two, I guess, broad instances, one was when I was a senior,
several freshmen in our pledge class actually got expelled for cheating and a lot of
the other freshmen throughout the university said that the system was unfair, that
the two girls in this case who had accused this one student of cheating had said this
because they actually just didn't like the guy, and that although he may not have
been cheating and it may have just looked like it, that they stood by their story and
were convinced that he was cheating and they had other witnesses saying that he
hadn't been cheating and whatnot. When he was expelled, other freshmen started
taking the letterheads from the EC and typing out real slanderous and derogatory
letters saying the EC was false. It was really kind of bothersome and, needless to say,
disturbing to see people who had been a part of the system for so short amount of
time having such a disrespect for it, because that could only lead to negative things.
These are the people who were supposed to hand it down and these are the people
who are supposed to respect it. It only works as well as we're willing to support it, I
guess.

         Then another instance that I had heard, actually had a freshman guy who I
knew on the soccer team when I was a sophomore. He actually came up to me one
day when we were walking back from practice, saying, "What's up with this Honor
Code stuff anyway? Because this guy, who's my big brother, said it's just kind of a
joke. Nobody really pays attention to it anyway, and said that he doesn't hesitate
using other people's stuff on his homework and stuff like that all the time." That
was really the only instance I ever had of having grounds for drawing attention to
someone, but I had only hearsay that he had actually cheated. Most times I'd ever
heard of it was people who have actually seen people or teachers who actually had

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physical proof and whatnot. I turned around and-"Who is this? What are you
talking about?" This freshman refused to tell me his name, realizing that he'd
actually confided in probably the wrong person to say such a thing, in a sense that I
wanted to kind of act on it. But we talked about it a little bit more and I reassured
him that, in my mind, it definitely wasn't anything to take too lightly.

         So I had very good experiences with it, and if you live by it, then you can die
by it. It's an obviously hard thing for freshmen, at least, I guess, to understand, even
for seniors to understand. We had a guy, I think who was a couple of semesters
away from graduating, and he actually cheated on some stuff, but he had been
cheating often. They'd actually proven, once they went back, he had an open trial, it
was the only one I got to see, and it was quite interesting. By the end of it pretty
much every one was convinced that he had actually cheated. So it's there and this is,
I think, a pretty good way to deal with it.

         But along the same lines, I think that there are certain people who deal with
it better. I don't know if within the recruiting process if there is any way to help
identify students, other than looking at their high school records. I believe that it's
been said that if you have any indication that you ever cheated whatsoever in high
school, that forget it, you're not welcome here, for the most part, and I think that's
something that throws you right out the door. I'd like to believe that's the case, but
I'm curious about whether there are additional ways that you could find people who
would potentially be more supportive of this. I think it is definitely something that
makes it by far one of the more unique places in the country.
Warren: It sure seems that way.
Laborde: It does.
Warren: One of the other unique things at W&L, Fancy Dress.
Laborde: Of course.
Warren: Do you have any Fancy Dress stories to share?

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Laborde: Shoot, so many things-so many stories that always come out of that. But I
never worked on any of the crews, which has kind of surprised people, just because
it seems like everyone at one time or another did a bunch of work to help build or
construct actual stuff, because you got free tickets, I think, is what the deal was. But
the only thing that I ever had happen to me that was even, I guess, that memorable,
because most the times they were just really fun, really good weekends. A lot of
stories, like I said, came from them, but I don't always remember all of them,
because there was so many, was that a date that I had taken my junior year had
actually had one of the biggest, largest individuals in my fraternity, who she was
friends with, dancing next to us with his girlfriend and he was swinging all around
and getting really into it and whooping it up. As I was spinning my date out, he was
spinning his out and stepped back and landed on her ankle. It just swelled up,
turned purple almost immediately. So I had to-we couldn't find a cab, we couldn't
find anything. No one was fit to drive, for the most part. We couldn't find any sober
drivers, so I had to carry for the most part, half on my shoulder and then actually
pick her up at one point because she said it hurt so badly, back to my apartment.
Then by that time, I was so exhausted that I couldn't go out and do anything else. So
that's about it. I'm sure there are many other.
Warren: That's memorable, but I don't think anybody -
Laborde: In a very good way, no, not at all.
Warren: Sounds like that would dampen the whole evening.
Laborde: Yeah, it had that effect, and it dampened the rest of the weekend, as well,
as you know, because it's on Friday and there were plenty of parties on Saturdays.
Warren: So, how about Lexington? Was the setting of Washington & Lee
important to you?
Laborde: Oh, very, very much so. Having the Blue Ridge Valley sprawling out all
around. Having national forests almost circumscribing the area and being able to get

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out with your friends away from school and going camping and fishing, even
hunting sometimes before class. So many unique things that you wouldn't find
anywhere else. Canoeing. Going inner tubing down the rivers. Going out to the
country houses. You drive ten minutes away and you're at these sprawling houses
by the rivers in time to watch the sun go down or shoot some skeet and barbecue
and throw a little party. Having bands play out in the country and whatnot, and just
the fact that it was such a small town, at least for my freshman and sophomore
years. I never really had to worry about locking things up and it just played so well
into, I think, the Honor Code system, the Honor System period.

         We had a couple-we had increasing problems, I think, with the town and
having people getting robbed and whatnot. I think my senior year, one guy actually
got shot at, which was a first for Lexington, if I remember correctly. And its
proximity to Washington, D.C., which is nice. Its location, being able to attract so
many people from the Georgia area, Nashville, the big circumference, Maryland,
West Virginia, Virginia. So, yeah, I definitely think that played a huge role in that
you were-I've heard it said many times that within two hundred, two hundred
fifty miles radius of that area were some of the greatest political thinkers of our
time, you know, found themselves and found inspiration in that area.

         So I love the area. Don't necessarily like the Lexington Police at all, and don't
know if I'd want to raise a family there because I know how hard it is to actually
grow up in a small town, from stories that my mother told me and also stories that
the actual Lexingtonians in my fraternity and in my classes at W&L had, and some
of the quirks that they themselves actually had. It's a beautiful place and I'll always
think of it home, definitely.
Warren: So you come back pretty frequently?
Laborde: Pretty frequently. I guess more frequently now that I see myself, in a couple
years, because I have a brother who's a junior there this year. So I still know him

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and his pledge class rather well, so I do have more of a reason to go back. I see myself
finding a gap [unclear] weekends when I know other friends of mine are going to be
going back, because I think when you go back and you don't know that many people,
it's more depressing and alienating than anything else, until you get to the point
where you don't necessarily have to go back for just friends. You can go back for the
environment. You can go back with your family, kids and whatnot, things like that.
Warren: What year did you graduate?
Laborde: '95. I've been out about a year and a half.
Warren: So Fraternity Renaissance was complete by the time you arrived.
Laborde: Exactly.
Warren: So you didn't live through any of that transition?
Laborde: Thank God, no. We got the beautiful product of it. We were the second
class of rush to go through the fraternity house, and it was very difficult in the sense
that the upperclassmen still were not accustomed to a house that they had to respect.
So we found ourselves in trouble with the university management plenty of times
because of broken windows and broken furniture and holes in walls and whatnot.
We actually had a guy who got suspended for breaking a window, and from what I
understand, it was the only time that President Wilson was ever booed. Because
there was a meeting, there was such an uproar that this guy was suspended for
breaking a window, that the president, I believe-or it may have been for another
reason that they had this meeting, but it was addressed that the student was
suspended for breaking the window.

         Had a meeting in Lee Chapel, and from what I understand, he was not very
warmly received, because people just didn't agree that breaking a window was worth
being suspended for a couple of weeks or the rest of the semester, or however long it
was.
Warren: You were not there for the meeting?

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Laborde: I wasn't there for that. That was the year before I got to W&L. It definitely
made for some interesting late night calls from guys in the house panicking because
they needed help to help repair something, which you hoped to be able to hide from
the House Inspection Committee which would come around once every week to .
make sure that everything was in order. But I think things have settled down a lot,
from what I understand, for better or for worse.
Warren: So as those guys graduated, people from your class-
Laborde: Gradually-
Warren: -were more likely who'd always seen the house this way were more-
Laborde: -to respect it, sure. Have you heard that story about-I'm sure you have,
you have to have, but I'll ask you anyway just because it's such a classic-about the
train? About the train kidnapping or highjacking.
Warren: Do you know that story?
Laborde: Well, there's a pledge brother of mine, Wen Hutchinson, who's from
West Virginia, whose, I think, grandfather was actually one of the ATOs who, I
believe, was-
Warren: I've been trying to track that story down.
Laborde: I'm pretty sure that his grandfather was-
Warren: Is his grandfather still around?
Laborde: I believe so. I'm not 100 percent sure on that.
Warren: What's this guy's name?
Laborde: Hutchinson, the guy's name is Wen, W-E-N.
Warren: The guy in your class?
Laborde: He's a year below me. He's actually still in Lexington right now, Wen is.
It's W-E-N, I believe, for Wendall. But he's a law student. He's a first-year law
student.
Warren: And his grandfather-

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Laborde: I believe his grandfather. So you have heard it, though?
Warren: Yeah, but just like this, but nobody can tell the story. In fact, some people
that it isn't really true. See, that's what they're going to say about you someday.
[Laughter]
Laborde: Well, sure, sure, exactly. Well, from what I understand, it's true. He didn't
talk about it that much. It's either his grandfather or his father. If I remember
correctly, his parents are rather old, so his grandfather may not be alive, but I'm sure
his father would be able to tell it, because I think he's a third legacy, if I remember
correctly. So I hope that helps.
Warren: All right. Well, I've have to track that one.
Laborde: I've thought about it, but it's usually when you try and think about things
the hardest is when they usually don't come to you.
Warren: Well, I've asked my standard questions. Is there anything more you'd like
to talk about?
Laborde: Not really that I can think of. And I wouldn't be offended at all if you
didn't use SAE's name in particular in this, just so that-if you use my name, that
doesn't bother me at all. People can go from there for their own purposes.
Warren: I think it's stronger if it's used as a generic story rather than [unclear].
Laborde: Sure, sure.
Warren: Thank you, Jeff.
Laborde: Sure thing. It was my pleasure.
Warren: It's been a lot of fun to meet the man himself.
[End of interview]

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