August 2006 Interview with Louise Wiseman Stuart By Isabelle Chewning Chewning: Today is August 23, 2006, I am Isabelle Chewning doing an interview of Louise Stuart for the Brownsburg Oral History Project, and we’re in Lou’s nice den, and I’m going to ask you a few background questions to get started. Stuart: Okay. Chewning: I hope you have some good stories for me. Stuart: Oh, my goodness sakes, I have all the stories in the world! Chewning: Great! So tell me about when you lived in Brownsburg. Were you born there? Stuart: No, no, no. No, I was born in Fairfield. I was born in the house at Layman’s Apple Orchard. I don’t know why we were there or anything, but that’s where we were. In the upstairs, and the house is still there. I was born on the 5th of April, and Mother said it snowed that night, really snowed, and Dr. Jeffries was the doctor there in Fairfield, and he came – doctors made house calls then – he came up, brought his peck of apples, she said, and stayed there all night and ate his apples, and I was finally born. So yes, that’s where I was born. Chewning: And then when did you live in Brownsburg? Stuart: Well. You know, we, for some reason, I don’t know, but we lived in the house that is now the museum [2716 Brownsburg Turnpike]. We lived in that house when I was very young. Probably two or three years old. Chewning: Oh, you lived in that house? Next to Mrs. Whipple’s house? Stuart: Yes. Yes, and it belonged to the Whipples then, and that’s where I have my story about the “necessary house”. But we’ll get to that later. Chewning: So you were really small when you lived there? Stuart: Really small. One, or two maybe. See, we always had realtives who lived around Brownsburg. All of Mother’s family, and there were eight – there were nine in her family. Chewning: What was her maiden name? Stuart: Her name was Reese. R – E – E – S – E. Chewning: And your father’s name was Wiseman. Stuart: Yes, my father’s name was Wiseman. And Dad was from Fairfield. He was from the other side of the hill. His family place was just down from where Rockbridge School is now. On the other side of the road. And there were nine in his family. Chewning: Where the Hockmans live now? Stuart: Well the Hockmans live up on top of the hill, and Grandmother and Granddaddy lived further on down. Chewning: Where Chris Blalock lives? Stuart: The house that they lived in burned. I think there’s a small house or trailer there [1495 Sterrett Road]. Do you know where Uncle Johnnie Wiseman lived? Chewning: No. Stuart: Well anyway, you go on down around the turn from the Hockmans, and then those new houses along there. Okay, then Grandmother and Granddaddy’s house was right down there. And they had an orchard – apple orchard – that I think they sold apples and stuff and they also had some cows that they must have butchered or something. Anyway, Granddaddy, what he did was go around and sell this meat. And of course, they had nine kids, different ages, but how they ever managed, I don’t know, but they did. And that’s what he did, and of course, Grandmother never worked. And the Reeses, Mother’s family, were all from Pisgah. They were all – as a matter of fact, Grandma (Grandma Reese was a Gordon) and the farm that her parents lived on was the farm that Willard Scott bought. And the house burned while they lived there. And there was never a house put back on it until Willard Scott built his nice little house up there [742 High Rock Road]. And that was the Gordon house. And she said that her father (who would be my great-grandfather) went off to the Civil War, and never came back. And they don’t know – Chewning: And they didn’t know – Stuart: Oh, no, they didn’t know what happened and nobody cared, he just never came back. But anyway, Pop (Granddaddy Reese) his family lived on the farm pretty close to theirs. And I remember Pop’s mother, Granny Reese, I remember her and one of his sisters who still lived in the farmhouse up there in Pisgah. Chewning: Well, are you related to Weasel [Reese] and Janet [Reese] Moneymaker? Stuart: Yes! Yes, indeed. Janet’s grandfather, George Reese, and my grandfather were brothers. Chewning: Gee, all these connections I never knew! Stuart: Yeah. Yeah. And Carl [Reese] was Mother’s first cousin, see. Yeah. But the strange thing is, Grandma Reese – who was a Gordon – do you remember Carl’s mother and father? Chewning: Yeah, uh huh. Stuart: Okay, now Carl’s mother had been married to my grandmother’s brother. She was a Gordon. And Flossie was a Gordon. That was her parents. Okay. Then, he died – that guy died – and then Mary married Carl’s father. Then they had Carl. You understand all that? Chewning: This is great. So how long did you live in the little house that is going to be the museum? Stuart: You know, I don’t know. I don’t know. It just must have been – I just barely remember the fire. Some reason, I remember that! [Laugh] Some reason I remember that, and I don’t know whether you want me to tell you that story now. Chewning: Oh, I’d love it, yeah. Stuart: Okay. Well anyway, while we were living there (and Ag teases me all the time about this) anyway. While we were living there, my brother Carl must have been – I don’t know, five maybe. I must have been three or two. Anyway, along in there. If my sister Frances was born, they took her with them to Staunton, and they had Mother’s sister, Helen, to come in and take care of Carl and me. Well, they didn’t think it would be any problem. But, Carl got himself all situated, and he decided that he had this job to do while Mother and Dad were gone. So he took me by the hand, and locked the doors to the house so Helen couldn’t get out, and then he took his – I think it was kerosene – he said kerosene, I don’t know. It was kerosene and matches and me, and went down in the back yard, and set that “necessary house” afire! [Laugh] And Ed Patterson told me a couple of years before he died, that he remembered – he said he was coming up – he was quite a bit older than we were – and he was coming up through Brownsburg to buy something for their farm, you know. And he got up there closer, and he saw all this fire down in the back yard, and across the street in front of the – I guess it was the Woody’s store, then, remember over there where what’s his name – Chewning: Where Dick Barnes lives? Stuart: Barnes. Yes, where he lives there was a store there, and it had the built-up street. And then down to the road. Well, we were sitting on the edge of that, and Ed said we just looked so pompous and sitting there just swinging our feet like we had really done a job! [Laugh] Chewning: [Laugh] And poor Helen, huh? Stuart: And that’s right, poor Helen! Anyway, when Dad got back, he realized that he couldn’t say anything, because he remembered at the dinner table one night he had said he wished somebody would burn that “necessary house” down so Mrs. Whipple would build us a new one! [Laugh] So Carl felt an obligation to take care of it. Chewning: [Laugh] That’s a great story! That’s funny. Stuart: It really is. And you know that the one thing when Carl died – Randy Harrison was going to conduct the funeral in Staunton, and he said, “You know what, I didn’t know your brother very well. If you have some stories you’d like to tell, just sketch them down for me.” And I did, and that was one of the ones that I told. And then at the funeral Randy said, “I hope you all will excuse me, but Lou has written this down, and it’s just so beautifully done I’m going to read it right out!” And he did. So anyway, Ag and Ed were there, and that’s why she teases me about it. Chewning: That’s a good story. Stuart: And it was the johnny house to the house that you all are going to have for the museum. Chewning: I think I had read somewhere that that house was – it was a bank, maybe at one time, and it was the phone office? Stuart: I don’t know all that. Must have been before my time. Chewning: So then did you move up the street after you lived there? Stuart: No. No, no, no, no. No. We left there and then we went over – do you know where Davis Station is? Chewning: No. Stuart: No. Okay. Well, you know where Bud – Bud Martin and his wife live [146 McClure Boulevard]. Chewning: Uh huh. Stuart. Okay. You go on across there, and the first road you get to, you turn left. Okay. And there’s a farm up there, and it belonged to Dad’s great-uncle. Yeah. Dad’s great-uncle. Uncle Buzz Arehart. That’s who it belonged to. Of course, he had gotten old, and he needed somebody to run his farm. So we moved up there. And that’s the first place that I really have memories of. And all the time we went to New Providence Church. Ah, but, ah, we loved it up there. Uncle Buzz had married this much younger woman. And my sister and I were just the apples of her eye. Chewning: Did she spoil you? Stuart: Spoiled us rotten! And Mother was busy, you know, doing all this stuff and we’d be down at Aunt Bessie’s. We knew darn well she’d take care of us and give us something to eat and watch what we wanted to do. [Laugh] All that stuff!! And we had a marvelous time. And after we came back to Brownsburg, we, my sister and I used to go over there and spend the weekends and everything – just like it was Chewning: A second home. Stuart: A second home – no question! I mean, we had this great big barn that we played in. And jumped off the hay down into the – whatever it was down there. And then Dad had these great old big horses. Chewning: So he was farming then. Stuart: He was farming. Oh yes, yes. He was farming. But I don’t know what the arrangement was. As far as I was concerned, it all belonged to us, but it didn’t! [Laugh] It didn’t belong to us. We had our own garden, you know. But other than that, I don’t know what the arrangements were. Chewning: And how old were you then? Stuart: Well, we must have come back to – I couldn’t have been more than two when we went over there. And we must have come back – moved back to Brownsburg then I would guess about in 1934. I must have been in the second grade or something like that. And anyway, the strange thing about that [laugh] was we had to walk from where we lived – Chewning: Where did you live? Stuart: Well we lived on this farm, you see. Of Uncle Buzz’s. From where you turn left there after you go on down from Bud’s it must have been a half a mile. Up in there. Where his – my Uncle Buzz’s farm. And he owned all the land on both sides of the hill. And it was a big farm. Or it seemed big to me. We used to pick berries and all that stuff, you know. And anyway, we had to walk up to Davis Station to catch the bus. And Carl, of course, was two years older than I was, but I thought I was as big as he was. And so he went to school the first year, and I didn’t get to go, and I really was angry, and I couldn’t imagine why I couldn’t go. I was so put out! I didn’t want to stay at home with my sister who was a little old thing! [Laugh] So anyway, and for some reason, I think they let me go. I don’t know – Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: Yeah. Of course, things were different back then. But I think the rule was if you were six before the end of the academic year you could go. So I went! I was so tickled I could hardly stand it! I wanted to go to school. I mean get myself dressed – Chewning: So did you go to school in Fairfield? Stuart: No, no. The bus to Brownsburg. And we walked up the railroad track, and went to Davis Station. And there was a Mrs. Houser up there who, when it was cold, would always take us in and warm us and feed us cookies. And – it was strange. After Boyd died – I’m sure you know this story – I dated RandallError! Bookmark not defined. Wade. Chewning: Right. Stuart: Okay. When I was in the first and second grade, Randall was driving the bus! [Laugh] He was my bus driver! [Laugh] He said he didn’t remember me. But anyway, he was my bus driver. Anyway, ah, then we – I don’t know any reason for anything. We just all did what they told us to do. And so Dad decided – Hugh McNutt was driving the school bus. And at that time the school bus drivers owned their own school busses and all that. And anyway, Hugh, I think was going down to Norfolk, or down in there somewhere. And that’s where he and Isabel lived when they got divorced. Anyway, so Dad bought the bus from Hugh. And so then he couldn’t do farming, so that’s when we moved to Brownsburg. It must have been about ’33 or ’34. I don’t remember how old I was, but I loved Brownsburg. I mean, I hated – I couldn’t imagine not living over there on the farm, you know, I just couldn’t imagine it. But we all loved Brownsburg. And you know, I can’t remember, we lived a lot of places. The first place was up on the upper end of Brownsburg. And I think that the house must have been torn down because I don’t see anything where we could live – or fell down, or something, I don’t know. But anyway, we lived there when we first moved over there. And then, you know the house that Mother and Dad owned at one time? Chewning: Uh huh. That’s the house were the Lunsfords live now, right [2651 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Stuart: Exactly, that’s the place, uh huh. So that was owned by Dad’s great aunt. And she was – Aunt – oh, my gosh, what was her name? Potter was her last name. Anyway, it’ll come to me. Aunt Sis. For heavens sakes – imagine calling somebody Aunt Sis. [Laugh] If you’re not southern you can’t do that! [Laugh] I don’t know what her name was. But anyway, she was Aunt Sis. She was Dad’s great aunt. She needed somebody to live in that house with her. And remember there was a little shop – you don’t remember this. But now the shop is in the back of that house. But the shop then was down in the front. And her husband had been a shoemaker. And that’s where he did his shoe work. And he died. So she decided she was going to use that for her kitchen, and then you walked across the porch to her bedroom. And we had the rest of the house. So see, that’s just what people did. I mean, they just took care of each other. So that’s where we stayed until Mrs. Annie Wade, her daughter, needed a place to live and she and her family came to live with her mother. I don’t know if you remember any of the Wades, like Tootsie Wade and all of them. Anyway, all of them came. Chewning: There’s a Wade – her name is Margaret Wade Harris who lives in Staunton. Stuart: That’s it. That’s Tootsie. Her family all lived in Brownsburg. And her father was not very substantial, and he sort of would go off drunk every once in a while. Anyway, then she needed to come home, and that Aunt Sis was her mother. See. So then, we had to find another place to live apparently, I don’t know. But anyway, they moved up there with her, and then we went down to the bottom end of Brownsburg and I don’t know what house it was. It was down there, I think next to the Post Office or along there somewhere. Chewning: Because there used to be kind of a bigger house there. Stuart: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, goodness sakes. Well, I’m not sure that we didn’t live in the one next – that’s still – that’s between the Post Office and the log house that’s for sale now. Chewning: Where Lib Ward lived. Stuart. Yes, where Lib Ward lived. And it belonged to Miss Ida Whitesell at that time. Some reason that sticks in my head. She had bought it to retire to but she was not ready to retire, and it seems to me that we rented that house for a while. Then, after that – I mean we just – Chewning: You lived in every house in Brownsburg! Stuart: Almost every house in Brownsburg. Then, let me see. Ah, Aunt Hassie, who lived across from John Layton [2682 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Dice. She was a Dice. And she married Mr. Bolen. Well, both of her husbands died. And she was Dad’s real aunt. Grandmother Wiseman’s sister. And so she was going to go to Lynchburg to live with – or to be near her children and so Dad and Mother rented her house. And we lived there – I don’t know – I remember a lot about living there and so forth. So we lived there until Aunt Sis died and they were selling the estate and Dad bought that house [2651 Brownsburg Turnpike] and we lived there the rest of the time. And then Mother – or somebody – I don’t think Mother told me how they did that – moved that little house from the front yard into the back yard, and then she made a place for grandkids to have a playhouse. And they really did – Chewning: And it’s still there. Stuart: And it’s still there. I don’t know what Walter and Doris do with it, but Mother had a playhouse for the kids in there. Chewning: But it was the shoemakers’s shop? Stuart: Yeah. Yeah, it was the shoemaker’s and that’s why it was in the front yard, you see, because people came and bought their shoes. I never knew him. But I knew Aunt Sis. We got a little tired of Aunt Sis [laugh] but anyway. She’s Virginia Mays’ great aunt. Chewning: And so you went all the way through school at Brownsburg? Stuart: Oh, yes, yes, all the way. Yeah. Chewning: Do you remember who some of your teachers were? Stuart: Oh, I remember almost all of them! Absolutely. I think Isabel Huffman – well, she was Isabel McNutt. And when she taught me, she was Isabel Leech. Do you remember Isabel at all? Chewning: Every time I ever met her, I think she told me she taught my Dad. Stuart: Oh, of course she did! Of course she did. And she just died a couple of years ago. Not even that long. And she married Julian Huffman, so -- anyway, she taught me in the first and second grade, when we had our last reunion, I went out – she lived just outside of town here – and picked her up. She went with us, and she was so excited, and when I got out there, she wasn’t dressed or anything. That time we were having it at Rockbridge Baths – and a couple of times during our trip out there she said, “Now where’s this we’re going?” So you know. But it was so good to have known her that many years. It was just marvelous! She was a great lady. Anyway, she taught me in the first and second grade and it was – well the first grade, I know I came from over there – the farm you see. And I just felt like I didn’t know where I was going. And she was just the most marvelous thing! She made me think I was the most important person in the world! She really did – she was just marvelous. Thank goodness I had a chance to tell her that. I mean, I really did. But anyway, then the third grade – Jen Heffelfinger – Jen Wade taught me. Chewning: Oh, she did? Stuart: Yeah, I think that was the third grade. And she was still Jen Wade then. And then, let me see, the fourth grade, Thelma – she was Thelma Leech and she married a Jones. And she hasn’t been dead very long. She was from Collierstown. And then the fifth grade – let me see now, what was her name? She was also a Wade – sort of a heavy-set – what was her first name? Don’t believe I can remember her name. But the fifth grade was the year – my fifth grade, your daddy was a year ahead of me. That’s when they closed all of these little schools around. And Pauline – that lady’s name was Pauline – she was Pauline Wade. They brought Broadview – which was on what is now Stuart Road – the Dixons and all of them came. They brought all of them down. And Boyd went to a little one-room school that Lib Ward and Lizzie Williams taught. He rode his pony over to that one – just beside that little church there at Bustleburg [Oak Hill School at McElwee Chapel]. And they closed that and brought all of them down. And we just became a bigger school. And at that time, we were all in that little old red schoolhouse. We had from the first through the fifth in that little red school house. And anyway, then, that was the first time I’d ever met Boyd. First time I ever saw him – I didn’t think too much of him, really! [Laugh]. Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: Oh, Lordy! But then, the sixth grade, we moved into the – Mother called it the Home Economics Building, the concrete building that’s still up there. We moved into that in the sixth grade, and I believe that – what was her name? Anyway – why can’t I – remember her name? And she married Mr. East. And her brother was a preacher out here in Collierstown for so long; his name was Dr. Diehl. Anyway, she was a good teacher, too. And then Mrs. Montgomery was our seventh grade school teacher. She was not married, but I think she subsequently got married. So – and then we got in high school, and one of my first high school teachers was Senora McClung. Chewning: Really! Stuart: Yeah. And she was Senora Shorter. Chewning: I didn’t know that she had been a teacher. Stuart: Oh, my gosh, yes. That’s why she came here. She told me that – she’s from Lynchburg. And she was straight out of college. She said she wasn’t more than two or three years older than we were. And her father brought her. And they were coming up through Brownsburg. And her father said, “Oh, Senora, you’re not going to stay over here.” He said, “I just can’t leave you here, and I’ll be worried to death.” She said, “Well, I’m going to stay with somebody called Mrs. Wade, and let’s go to talk to her and see if you feel a little different, and if you want me to go back, then I’ll go.” And they went around and talked with Mrs. Wade. Well she said, “Little did I know I was going to spend the rest of my life here!” [Laugh] So she did. And anyway, she was – she was too near our age. She still contends that we were really a marvelous, bright bunch of kids, and she really enjoyed every one of us, but we didn’t think she was a very good teacher at all. [Laugh] Chewning: Because it was her first year? Stuart: It was her first year teaching. Yeah, right straight out of college. And I remember Miss Trimmer told us – now we were having – Chewning: Miss Trimmer was the principal? Stuart: Oh, my gosh, was she ever the principal! Whoa! Anyway Miss Trimmer told us before she came, “Now you all are really, really lucky. You have this lady who is coming to be your home room teacher. And she’s going to teach--” I don’t know what classes she was going to teach us, I don’t remember that. Whatever it was, she was going to be a really good teacher. “And she is from wealth. And she was planning to travel in Europe.” Well, at that time, Europe could have been the other side of the moon for all we knew! [Laugh] She was going to travel in Europe and the war came along, and she wasn’t able to, and she just decided she was going to come and – she didn’t say “do you the honor,” but anyway “She is going to come and teach you all, so you really – I want you to really respect her, and realize how lucky you are.” Well anyway, it was Senora Shorter. And she – then, let’s see, the next, sophomore year, I think Mr. Lunsford taught us. Anyway, he came from somewhere down in Alabama, and he came to coach the boys’ basketball team, and that’s the year we tried to have a football team, and everybody broke their legs, and everything and they couldn’t have a football team! [Laugh] And we had football practice down there along Hays Creek where Bernice [Nye] owns now [near 2843 Brownsburg Turnpike], that was our football field. I think he was our homeroom teacher then. You know, I don’t remember who our junior year was. Unless it was Mrs. Patterson, but I don’t think it was. I don’t think she was ever homeroom teacher. But anyway, I don’t know. Then Miss Trimmer was our senior homeroom teacher. Chewning: So she took the seniors? Stuart: Oh, my goodness yes. Well, she took everybody, really but – [laugh]. But the seniors were with her for homeroom. Chewning: Where did she live? Stuart: She lived every place. Chewning: Did she live in Brownsburg? Stuart: Yeah, at sometimes, yeah, most of the time she did. She lived in the house that Catharine Gilliam owns now [2703 Brownsburg Turnpike]. With the Bosworths. [Phone rings, and Stuart answers it.] Stuart: Catharine tells me that she wants me to come out there. And I remember when Miss Trimmer lived in the upstairs of that house. And ah, then she also, for several years, rented that house down there at the bottom end of town. Just as you go down to Sterrett Road. Who owns it? I don’t even know who lives there now. Chewning: Is it where Dr. [Richard G.] Hutcheson lived [former New Providence minister]? Stuart: Yeah. Chewning: Gwyn Campbell lives there now [2766 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Stuart: Alright. It was in that. And Miss Trimmer rented the whole house, and then she rented to the teachers who needed a place to live. Well anybody who knew Miss Trimmer knew that that was not going to work. Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: Because [laugh] – and if you all talk with Mollie Sue, and I’m sure you did – she was one of the ones who boarded and roomed in that place down there. And Isabel Huffman, and some of the people I have talked to. Chewning: Was she just too strict? Stuart: Oh, yes, she ran everybody – and you knew that she’d run her teachers! And I think it was a really nice arrangement but, particularly the unmarried women, they were not going to [laugh] let her tell them who they could go with! And she tried to do that! Bless her heart, she was a marvelous, marvelous lady, and I just give her some much credit. Chewning: Sounds like she ran a pretty tight ship. Stuart: Oh boy, did she ever! You know, Mother said she was a principal when she went to school up there. I don’t know, it must have been the last couple of years of Mother’s time. But she had been there forever. Boy, she ran that place. But she – when you get out and you look back – my goodness, that lady – she was a real – I don’t know what you’d call her. She coached, lots of times she coached the boys’ basketball team. She always coached the girls’ basketball teams. Always. She coached softball, volleyball, anything the girls did. She also had the Glee Club, she did these operettas that we had – I mean operettas that were really, really well done. She did it. She had the ability to do that. And was the principal of the school. And the disciplinarian, if there ever was one. And then she did all of the plays that we did. One time we did a Stephen Foster thing. Ah, and then we did something called “Sunbonnet Sue”, I think, and I still have the sunbonnet that Mother made me. Chewning: Oh, how neat! Stuart: And she did all of the graduation things, and how in the world she ever did it, I don’t know. She was a multi-talented lady. Chewning: She must have been really remarkable. Stuart: She was. And then Boyd – she and Mrs. Patterson, you know Rosenell Patterson who was the math teacher. She might have been my junior year homeroom teacher. She taught all the math, and I didn’t like math. At all. But Boyd took every bit of math they had. And she taught Plane and Solid Geometry, and then two other math things. I’ve forgotten what they – Chewning: Algebra, probably. Stuart: Yeah, algebra. I took first year algebra. That’s all. I had to have three maths to graduate. [Laugh] That’s the only reason. But Boyd loved it, and he – after he went in the Air Force, he took every test and volunteered for everything to keep himself in this country. He didn’t want to go overseas. And so he volunteered to take the test to be a pilot. And he took the thing, and he thought, “Well, you know, gosh, I probably flunked it.” Well, after the war, they sent him down to Greensboro to deal with something called “classifications”. I don’t know. Apparently they put what soldiers had done and so forth on cards or something. Anyway, that’s where he worked. And he pulled his and found that he did pass it. He did pass that test. And here there were college kids with Masters Degrees. He was straight out of high school. And that’ll tell you. Boyd was bright and he applied himself but Brownsburg was just a little old country school down here. Chewning: But you felt like you got a really good education. Stuart: A good education. A good solid education. When I went over to Lynchburg to business school, the amazing thing was some of those girls didn’t know how to walk straight. And I just felt I really was superior. I mean, I just give Mrs. [Rosenell] Patterson, and the other teachers I had, and particularly Miss Trimmer because she encouraged those teachers to walk the line. And they taught. They probably weren’t paid anything at all. But they, they did the deal. And it was there for you if you wanted to get it. It was a really, really good school, Isabelle. And she was such a disciplinarian, if you wanted to get it, you got it. Because that place – nobody disturbed those classes like they did in later years. [Laugh] I mean they didn’t dare, because those great big grown boys, they might not have been afraid of her, but they were intimidated by her. Chewning: How many people were in your class? Stuart: We didn’t have very many in our senior class. Because if they were 17 years old, they were taken to the military. They were drafted. And some of those boys were older. I don’t know if you knew Sam Miller – Chewning – Uh hm. Stuart: He was one of the ones, and Ralph Robinson. They were taken because they were older. And Boyd was older, but he had taken a test, and was eligible for the Air Force. And Richard Beard did the same, and he was eligible for the Navy. So they weren’t drafted. But a lot of them were drafted. I don’t think we had more than 15 in our graduating class in ’44. And see it was right in the middle of the war. And we didn’t have an annual or any of those things. Chewning: Do you remember the air raid drills where you had to turn out all the lights? Stuart: Of course! Oh yes, and Dad was one of those air raid people, you know, so he’d go out on his watch, and we’d all turn ours off, and of course, at school, we had something called – I don’t remember what it was called. But we all had our little hats and everything, and we drilled and carried on at school. Chewning: When you say he went out on his watch, what was that? Stuart: Well he was – Dad was responsible for a certain part of town. Chewning: Just making sure that everyone’s lights were out? Stuart: Everybody’s lights were out and everybody was okay. I don’t know what they called those, there was a name for them. And Dad had a certain number of places, yeah. And then of course, my brother, Carl, who graduated a year ahead of me, graduated from high school and that summer right on to Alabama. Six weeks of basic training right off to North Africa, and Italy, and the Battle of the Bulge. And here he was – I mean gosh, 17 years old. You know, I didn’t even realize how young 17 was, back then, you know because I thought he was a grown man. He was a kid! Chewning: Seventeen is young. Stuart: Seventeen. And six months basic training. Six months. And then he came home on a furlough or something and then he went back to Norfolk, and that’s when he went – straight out. I mean that war was something else. Shoot, people talk about this one now. I know people are being killed, and they’re dead. But, but it is nothing like World War II. Chewning: And do you remember the rationing? Stuart: Oh my goodness sakes, yes. We couldn’t get sugar. We couldn’t get gasoline to go anyplace. And I, we, we were lucky because we did live in the country and some of the boys were able to get gas for farm equipment, you know, and I could date some of them who had farm gas! [Laugh] Chewning: You had your priorities! Stuart: I had them really straight, boy. I had a marvelous time in high school. Even in spite – and George East was one of the first boys who was killed, and that really put a pall over our community. Because we were all crazy about George East, he was an artist. And I really remember George coming into one of my elementary classes, and drawing a picture of the three pigs and they put them in the pot, or something. And I can see that pot right now. And he drew those pigs, you know. And then he was killed. Chewning: How much older than you was he? Stuart: Oh, he was a lot – he was a lot older than I. My goodness, I think he was at Georgia Tech – I know he was in college, don’t think he had graduated, he was something like a junior – in college when he was drafted. And ah, that really, I mean it really put a downer over everybody in Brownsburg. And of course, his parents never, never got over that. She got – and I’m sure you’ve heard your parents say this – she said she would never go back to New Providence again because no God that she would believe in would take her son. And, you know, that’s – who could blame her? But – Chewning: Was he their only son? Stuart: Oh, goodness yes. And she doted absolutely on him. I think that he’d been born, you know, when they were older. And she, she was just absolutely devastated and never got over it. Chewning: That’s sad. Stuart: Yeah, it is. It is. Chewning: And what was your Dad doing during the war? Stuart: Ah, well, he was still driving the bus. He traded up, you know, and I think he always owned his bus. I guess it was -- Chewning: What did he do in the summer? Stuart: Well, in the summer, I think he worked in a store. In somebody’s store down town. Real often he worked for Elmer Huffman in the store [2712 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Or – and then, when the Farmer’s Coop came, that’s how he started working with them. And ah – but gosh, you know there were – there was lots going on. Chewning: Well, it seems like it was a happening place! Stuart: It was, it was a marvelous place to grow up, Isabelle. Do you know – sure you know. We had, the boys had baseball in the spring, and the girls had softball and both of us played out there in your daddy’s meadow. Chewning: Did you? Stuart: Yeah! And lots of times we had to walk, but we didn’t care! Good gracious, I loved athletics. I played everything. Chewning: Oh did you? Stuart: Yes. And of course, Mother said she played everything. And then Dot, who was her sister, but she was so much younger. And Dot was four years ahead of me, and she was the star basketball player – well Miss Trimmer decided because I was her niece I could do it too! [Laugh] And I did it, boy! I had a – you know I played everything that was playable. And it was really a marvelous time – my sister and Marjorie Ann and I have said over and over, we never would have wanted to grow up any place else. I mean it was a marvelous place for kids. Everything we wanted or desired was right there for us. Chewning: And were there a lot of kids that lived in Brownsburg? Stuart: Oh yes, yes. All the Wades, and there were bunches of them. Chewning: Which Wades were they? Stuart: That was the one you said that her name was Margaret Ellen Harris. There were a bunch, I think she was the youngest of a great big family. And of course when the war came along, it took the boys all away. But before the war, there were – and a couple of the Wades never decided which one of us was Frances and which was Louise. They’d just say “Hello, Frances and Louise.” They didn’t have time to worry about which was which! [Laugh] Anyway, there were all of those, and of course, Marjorie Ann was just somebody that lived with us most of the time. And the Bowles, I haven’t told you the story of the Bowles, I wanted to tell you that. There were about four or five of them over there. Gosh, who else was there? [End of Tape 1, Side A] Chewning: What about the stores in Brownsburg? Stuart: Okay. Across the street from the store which was owned by the Englemans [currently Dick Barnes’ residence at 8 Hays Creek Road] then was Bob Supinger’s Store [current location of Old South Antiques]. Chewning: Which one was where the antique shop is now? Stuart: That’s Bob Supinger’s store. Chewning: And so the Englemans were – Stuart: On the other side, where Dick Barnes lives. Chewning: Oh, okay. Where the Coop went later? Stuart: Yeah, exactly, that was the store there. And somebody was always running that store. It was a big store. And Bob Supinger stayed in his all the time. Of course, it was probably a way to get away from Osie, his wife! [Laugh] But anyway, he was always in that store. If you couldn’t find any other person open, you knew Bob Supinger was open. And he sold all the stuff that you needed, and then in the back of his store, Bud Wade cut hair, and he had a pool table in there that people came from the farms and every where else and played pool. So that was always going on. And then around the corner, Mr. Carwell had his garage, and there were always people around there, you know. There was always stuff going on. Chewning: Well, did the stores have different merchandise? I mean, how did you decide which store to go to? Stuart: Well, you just went to the one that was closest to you. [Laugh] Chewning: Oh, okay. Nobody got their feelings hurt if you went to another store? Stuart: [Laugh] No! No, no, no, no, not at all! And of course, Elmer Huffman sold lots of popsicles and ice cream and that kind of stuff, so that’s where you’d head when you first got out of school, you see. And then, of course, the telephone office was upstairs over the bank [2711 Brownsburg Turnpike]. The bank was always there where the concrete building is – somebody lives in it now. And then upstairs, when they had those things that you stuck in and pulled back, you know. I think Mattie lived up there all the time. And Osie lived up there part of the time, she and Bob. And part of the time they lived out there in the country where Amelia, their other sister lived. So between the two sisters – Chewning: So Mattie and Mealie and Osie were all sisters? Stuart: Yes, and Mealie – Amelia – never married and so she stayed at the home place [1727 Sterrett Road]. Chewning: Did Mattie ever marry? Stuart: No, Mattie never married either. And then, of course, the Post Office was where Catharine Gilliam owns now [2707 Brownsburg Turnpike]. She didn’t know she had gotten that! Chewning: The store? Stuart: Yes. That’s where the Post Office was and Mrs. Bosworth ran the Post Office then. Chewning: And that’s Dr. Bosworth’s mother who ran the Post Office? Stuart: Yeah. Tommy’s mother. Yeah. Uh huh. And they lived in the house. Mr. Jim and she lived in the house. Chewning: In Catharine’s house? Stuart: In Catharine’s house. Chewning: Oh. So Dr. Bosworth grew up there? Stuart: Yeah! Sure. And Fanny who was Tom’s sister. She grew up there. Yeah, I remember Fanny. She was right – a lot older. But now, Tommy was in high school when I was in grade school, so I remember he was hanging around Brownsburg. Fanny was off to college somewhere by that time. But she used to come back a lot, too, so I knew her. But anyway, I guess Mrs. Bosworth died, or got too old and gave it up, or something. And I remember Sam Patterson – one of Sam Patterson’s sisters – not Tate, but a little older than Tate. And for the life of – Chewning: Betsy? Stuart: No, no, it wasn’t Betsy, it was another one. It must have been their oldest sister, I cannot remember – Chewning: Was there one named something like Cornelia? Stuart: Yeah, exactly! That’s the name. It’s something like that. She ran that Post Office then. And I don’t know whether you had to take a test, but she was out of school and I guess she wasn’t in college, I don’t know. But she was – oh, I thought she was just marvelous! Because she was so much older, and she was so sophisticated! Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: And we used to go – my sister and Marjorie Ann and I’d go down there real often. And particularly in the summer time, and sit out there in front of that Post Office and talk to her, and get all these tales, you know. She was probably lying! [Laugh] But we were just little cisterns! We were taking every bit of it in! And we really – and I really remember her for that. If I could remember her first name. And I don’t think it’s been too many years since she died. She married somebody over there who lived beyond Old Providence Church. Over in there someplace. But anyway, she used to do a lot of handiwork, and I remember she made this bathrobe. And then she – it was a time when chenille was the biggest thing, you know, and then she did the chenille to cover that whole thing. Chewning: Oh, my goodness. Stuart: We thought that was the most marvelous thing anyway. So we sat there and talked and we just had the best old time. I mean that’s the way Brownsburg was. And somebody else that I remember and today – oh gosh – Harve Matheny. The name, does that name -- Chewning: I’ve never even heard that name. Stuart: Okay. Alrighty. He had a sort of a trailer kind of a thing, and it was parked in there about in back behind Dick Barnes – near where his log cabin is [8 Hays Creek Road], right along there. It was parked. It was probably parked out on the state road, I don’t know. But it was parked back in there somewhere. And anyway, he fixed shoes. And Marjorie Ann and – we called my sister Jude – anyway, Marjorie Ann and Jude and I used to go down there and sit in this trailer kind of thing with him, and talk to him, and learn all of this important information that he had to impart. And he was one of these guys who could take warts off of your hand. And he took one off of my hand. And ah, then – and you’ve never heard that name? Chewning: What is it again? Stuart: Harve Matheny. Chewning: Harve Matheny? Stuart: Matheny. Chewning: No, I never – Stuart: And he had a son, well that son wound up in the penitentiary somewhere. So I went down there, and wrote letters. He couldn’t write. And wrote letters for him to his son in the penitentiary. Chewning: How old were you when you were doing this? Stuart: [Laugh] I don’t remember. I don’t know how old I was, but I was important! Chewning: [ Laugh] Did your mother know you had a penpal in the penitentiary? Stuart: No! [Laugh] And today’s parents would never let anything like that happen. Nobody ever imagined any of the horrible things that you hear now. But there we were, us little girls sitting up in there! [Laugh] A lot of times I went down there by myself. I mean, you know, he had this letter – he wanted me to read this letter from his son. Well anyway, then – my first job after school – Miss Jenny Patterson lived around there where Randall’s mother lived [44 Hays Creek Road]. And she had been a home missionary from New Providence up in the mountains some place. Spent her whole life up there. And she retired and I don’t know whether she bought – I guess she bought that place around there and was living there. And she needed somebody to help her after school. And so Dad thought I’d be good – I would be really good for that! [Laugh] So after school I went down, and the most thing I ever did was – she had a cistern out at the back. And the most thing I ever did was go out to the cistern and pump her some water up. And put it in a jar that she had and bring in the house to her. I don’t remember – I guess I dusted – I don’t know what else I did. [Laugh] But anyway, I went around there for a while. And one day, I went around there, and she decided I was so good that maybe I could clean her basement. Chewning: Did she pay you? Stuart: Yes, she paid me – I don’t know how much it was. [Laugh] Probably a quarter a day! I don’t know. But ah, anyway, ah, I cleaned that basement. And I really liked to clean, so I got down there, and I did a really good job, but I don’t know what – she probably paid me a quarter for that. But I told Dad I’d had it! I was not going back any more! [Laugh] And I didn’t, so I lost that job! [Laugh] But anyway, I – you know, I was having too good a time, I didn’t want to fool with it – it was cutting into my “having a good time” time. But anyway, Brownsburg was an interesting place. It really was. And Marjorie Ann and my sister and I, we’d talk about this all the time. And I told our preacher when he preached my sister’s funeral. And I told him and his wife all about what we did, and Marjorie Ann was there. And we used to – we played paperdolls until – like I told my niece, I played paperdolls through the week, and dated boys on Sunday -- Chewning: [Laugh} Stuart: Because we just loved those paperdolls. I mean, we cut them out of a catalog, a pattern catalog that we came up to Lexington and Adair Hutton’s gave us the book. And we’d cut the bottoms out, and then we chose a head, and put those heads on those clothes, and they lived in a catalog. We had the catalog, you know, and had it all fixed out here. And we – these people were real to us! My girl was Joanne. I still remember Joanne. I remember her name. She had brown hair. We just had wondered – what in the world ever happened to our catalogs? Because they just were real people to us, and we had the best time playing with those things. It didn’t cost anybody anything. But anyway, those were some of the things – Chewning: Did you have animals? Stuart: No. We didn’t. Mother had a couple of old cats. Chewning: Outside cats? Stuart: Outside cats. And I never have liked old cats. We just weren’t animal people. We really weren’t. I think Marjorie Ann’s family had a dog. Yeah, they had one dog I know that they called Prince. I didn’t even like that old thing. I just didn’t like dogs. But we didn’t, no. We had – on the farm when we were over there, Uncle Buzz had a great big old collie, and we liked that dog, but other than that we weren’t very big animal people. And see Mother’s sisters all lived around there, so we had tons and tons of cousins to play with. Chewning: Oh, you had a lot of cousins to play with. Stuart: Yes. Before the war, yes. Chewning: Does anything stand out in your mind as something really momentous or important that happened in Brownsburg? Stuart: Well, the thing that I remember most – of course I was older – was Pearl Harbor Day, which was December 7, 1941. And I was still young, but it, we knew that – I mean, if my life had depended on it, I could not have told anybody where Pearl Harbor was. I mean, it was just something out of the sky. And it was just so shocking. And of course, we all had radios. And all of a sudden, here it was, on a Sunday. That we were at war. There was no question about it. And it was really a shock to everybody, because here we’d been living back here in the mountains, and we were doing our own thing and all of a sudden. And I remember – I haven’t checked with anybody else – but I think that there was a program up at the schoolhouse. Miss Trimmer might have called it because she was in charge. It was either at the schoolhouse or out at New Providence, and I’m not sure which. And we had a service. Chewning: That day? That Sunday? Stuart: That same day. That Sunday afternoon. And everybody – I think it was up at the high school Everybody went up there, and the preacher – Dr. Hanna came, and they had some singing and that was, you know, that was a shock. Chewning: And then did you listen – I mean, did the radio have a lot of news about the war? Stuart: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Every night you listened to ah – oh my gosh, I don’t know who it was we listened to. Ah, but it was important you listened every night, particularly after Carl left. But oh, no, after that everybody listened to the radio and kept up with everything that was going on. And, I mean, our lives changed. There was no question. Our lives changed like that. And we were never carefree again. Chewning: When did Carl leave? Stuart: He graduated from high school in ’43. And like I said, right off he was in the Battle of the Bulge. He was wounded three times. Chewning: Oh, he was? Stuart: Oh, yes. Yes. Three times. And the last time, I was in Lynchburg then, and they sent him back by plane. And he came back to the place down there below Staunton. That hospital down there. And the war was, you know, winding down by then. He was glad to fly home because he got seasick going over there. He was so seasick, he thought he would die, he said. [Laugh] But he was so glad to be flown back. There was a great big hospital down there where that Fishersville – Chewning: Oh, Woodrow Wilson? Stuart: Woodrow Wilson. Yeah, it was a great big hospital. Down there then. And they tried to get them as close to home as they could. So anyway, I tell you, it was a shock to everybody when that – and of course you couldn’t get anything, you couldn’t get anywhere. And everything you went to do, you couldn’t do it. We had our senior play, just like normal and the senior exercises and so forth. But, you know, it just wasn’t the same. The name of our senior play was “The Arrival of Kitty.” Guess who was Kitty? [Laugh] Chewning: [Laugh] You were the star? Stuart: But I wasn’t the real star because [laugh] I don’t know, Miss Trimmer was something. Anyway, she chose me for Kitty she told Mother because she thought I was dating Richard Beard at the time. And it happened, I was dating Boyd. [Laugh] Chewning: So she didn’t know everything that was going on! Stuart: She didn’t know everything! And the play wound me up with Boyd, see. [Laugh] Chewning: Little did she know! Stuart: Little did she know! Chewning: Well I was interested when you said you had operettas? Stuart: Oh, we did! We had operettas! And I’m telling you, Isabelle, it was good! It was good! Chewning: Did Mrs. Whipple play the piano? Stuart: She played it after she came, yes. And this Leech lady I was telling you about who taught me in the third grade played the piano. And I believe George East played the piano. You know, Miss Trimmer knew what she was doing. I mean, we had – John Layton [Whitesell] had a gorgeous voice. He sang a lot. We did a Stephen Foster thing – I told you that. And a lot of people who really could sing contributed. And I mean Miss Trimmer practiced us until we did it right, and we sang whether we could sing or not!! [Laugh] We didn’t dare not sing. And it was good! I tell you it really was good. And we had that – this was after we moved into the new building you see – and we had that big stage. Or we thought it was a big stage then. And even when we were in that little red brick building, there was a big stage for that. But I was in grade school, so she had grade school things, you know. And she really did, she had us all marching around with these things with the flowers over top of our heads, you know, and little dresses – she told our parents what dresses we had to have. Unbelievable! Chewning: Where was the little red brick school? Stuart: Okay. It was – you know where the concrete one now is? Chewning: Uh hm. Stuart. And there was a big cistern here. Chewning: Right. Stuart: And the brick one was right there. Chewning: So did they tear that down to build the high school? Stuart: Yes. Chewning: Okay. Stuart: Yes, they tore that down when they built the big one. It had been condemned. But it really is a shame, because that was the courthouse, see. Chewning: I wonder if anybody has pictures of that. Stuart: Oh, I’m sure they do. Because I went to the fifth grade in that. And I’m sure people – there are people. I don’t know if I have one. You know, I didn’t look up any pictures, and I know I’ve got a ton of them. I don’t know if I have a picture of that building or not. But that’s where that thing happened when that doctor got killed and all of that, you know. So there was – it was an historic building, and it just was too bad that it got torn down. Chewning: Yeah, that’s a shame. Stuart. Yeah, it is. But before I – when I was still in there, they had condemned the auditorium upstairs so that you couldn’t have things up there. Chewning: So I guess you really did need a new one. Stuart. Oh, no question! Of course it was dangerous because they oiled the floor, and then we had wood stoves. I mean – duh!!! [Laugh] But we did. We did. Chewning: Yeah. Stuart: Yeah. And there was a – I remember the fire escape from the upstairs and it was metal. But we, you know, she practiced us and we went up and down that thing. Chewning: Oh, I think my – I don’t know if it’s that fire escape, but my Dad always tells the story about “Robin Hood”. I guess you were doing “Robin Hood” or something, and they wheeled Mrs. Whipple’s piano out there on the fire escape. Stuart: Absolutely! Oh, absolutely! I remember that! That’s when I was telling – I was a year younger, and had this thing on over my head with this floozy little dress [laugh]. Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: That was the same time! Absolutely! Absolutely. And, you know the girls used to play basketball out there – outside. And Miss Trimmer would make the little kids get out there and pick up all the pebbles. [Laugh] Chewning: [Laugh] Did you – Stuart: We were so tickled to do it! Chewning: Did you play – did they play other schools? Was it competitive basketball? Stuart: Yeah, oh yes! Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Now of course I was a kid then but by the time I was playing we had the gym. And we certainly did, but by that time, everything was competitive. We played Lexington High School then. Yeah, but they played competitively when they played outside, too. Of course, nobody had inside courts then. [Laugh] Oh Lord! Let me see, I wanted to tell you about – there was one story that I really wanted to tell, because I don’t know if anybody knows this or not. It’s amazing to me how many people have died. Gosh, I’m 79. Chewning: Well, you’re a very young 79! Stuart: [Laugh] Oh, gosh! Well anyway, this must have been in the early 30’s, and you know, it was tough. People – nobody had anything. I mean – Chewning: In the Depression? Stuart: Even if you owned land, you didn’t have dollars. It was just unbelievable. But of course, I didn’t care. Mother and Dad were just the most marvelous parents. I mean, shoot, they didn’t care anything about money you know, it didn’t matter. Anyway, but, what happened was we ah, I guess were living in Brownsburg at that time, I’m not sure. But, you know over there – right across the street from where John Layton and Virginia [Whitesell] live – what’s their name? Chewning: Where Dick and Betsy Anderson live now? Stuart: Where the Andersons live [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike]. There was a lady, Mrs. Morris, who was a minister, and she was from some kind – I thought she was Quaker. But my friend Flossie who just called is a Quaker, and she said they never sent out missionaries. And I talked with Tootsie after that, and she said, “Well, no, Mrs. Morris was not a Quaker.” She was some sort of a – I don’t know what her religion was. But she was from Ohio, Tootsie told me. And her church in Ohio had sent her and her husband down to the mountains in Virginia to save our souls [laugh] down here. And so she – they came down and bought this house – now I don’t know when that was, must have been long, long time ago. Anyway, her husband, and she was getting older. She was Mrs. Marie, but everybody called her Miss Mamie. She was Mrs. Mamie Morris. I never knew her husband; he died early. But anyway, she kept on living in the house, and she had a church that they had built, which was on the lot between Betsy’s house [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike] and our house [2651 Brownsburg Turnpike], right on that lot. And it faced the Methodist – the Black church [Asbury United Methodist Church]. But it was on that lot, sort of a long church. And that’s where they had their services. And Tootsie’s parents belonged to that church. Ah, I don’t know who else, but anyway, one time, in the early ‘30’s, this woman and her husband – they lived in Petersburg – and people did a lot of hitch hiking and so forth when there were no jobs back then, you know. And so she and her husband didn’t have a job, and for some reason, they left Petersburg. He had problems with his back, and she was pregnant. So they hitch hiked. Just go anywhere that somebody would take them. So they wound up in Staunton. And then they got on the back road that comes up to Brownsburg, and they were hitch hiking out there. And somebody picked them up on that road, brought them up and stopped. Then, they stopped at the Slusser’s [4216 Brownsburg Turnpike]. I don’t know why, maybe it was one of the Slussers that picked them up, I don’t know. But anyway, at the Slussers. They went in and asked the Slussers if they would give them something to eat. Or if they had a place for them to stay. And Mrs. Eglantine [Slusser] said “Well, we don’t have – we have a full house, but I think I know somebody that will help you.” So she made arrangements – maybe she brought them in to Mrs. Morris’. Well, in the meantime, Tootsie’s sister, older sister, her name was Edith. She was Edith Wade and she married Houston Harlow later. But see, she was living over there at the house that we lived in with her mother and grandmother at that time [2651 Brownsburg Turnpike]. So she was going to come over and spend the night with Mrs. Morris because Mrs. Morris was apparently not feeling very well, and she needed somebody to spend the night with her. So, the Bowles, Edith and Edgar Bowles, these people from – the Slussers brought them in, and just let them out there, and told them to go up on Mrs. Morris’ steps. Well, it happened that Edith Wade’s name was “Edith”, and Edith Bowles’ name was “Edith” so the Bowles knocked on the door, and Mrs. Morris yelled and said, “Come on in, Edith, I’ll be there in a few minutes!” [Laugh] Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: So the Bowles came in, and then she came in, and it was the Bowles. Well anyway, the upshot of that was, they stayed there – I’m not sure exactly when they left, because I was gone, but that must have been the ‘30’s, they must have left sometime in the ‘80’s [‘40’s?]. They had a whole family, and their oldest daughter, they named Frances Morris. She was Frances Morris Bowles. And then they had a son whose name was, I think, Bobby. And they had another one, and then one of Edith’s children that she had had by somebody else came and lived with them. Anyway, they stayed there. And how they ever managed – because there was no Social Security, or nothing for poor people. And where Mrs. Morris got money, I don’t know. And Mr. Bowles couldn’t work – he had something wrong his back. So I never knew him to do any work. He was always over there. But they did take care of Mrs. Morris. It was – you know, it just was to be! They – and Mrs. Morris. Edith and Mother were great buds. We moved all over town, but they were great buds! [Laugh] Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: Edith had been in some kind of a fire, and her face was sort of scarred. But she was just a marvelous person! And this little Frances Morris that they had was the prettiest little child you ever saw in your life! But anyway, one time, you know Boyd and I built – after we were married we built that house down there below your father’s farm. Chewning: Oh right, where Mrs. Cash lived? Stuart: Exactly. We built that there [2640 Sterrett Road]. And one Sunday afternoon – well, we were married in ’47, and this must have been like 1950 or something. We were all down at Mother’s. And Mother and Dad had gone somewhere and hadn’t gotten back, and Marjorie Ann and her husband were up there. Anyway, Frances Morris and her family came in. And I mean, we hadn’t seen them for so long but we loved seeing them again. None of us were sure when they left, but it must have been in the ‘80’s [‘40’s?] or something like that. Chewning: Not the ‘80’s? Stuart: Must have been the ‘80’s [‘40’s?]. Yeah. Chewning: Oh. Stuart: And yeah, yeah, the whole generation. I mean they all grew up over there! [Laugh] Yeah! Well I don’t know, if they came in – let’s say ’35, something like that. And, I mean they were still there when I went off to Lynchburg. I graduated in ’44. Chewning: When did the Swopes live there? Stuart: Well they – well Mrs. Morris died, and that’s apparently why the Bowles left, see, and they went back to Petersburg. And that’s when the whole estate was sold, and the Swopes bought it. And I don’t know about the years, but that’s when they bought it. I mean now, isn’t that the most unbelievable story? Chewning: Yes, uh huh. Stuart: But Mrs. Morris was one of the people who was always a friend of ours, and we used to go over there and Mr. Bowles played – what was it we played? What is it that you build hotels and – Chewning: Oh, Monopoly? Stuart: Monopoly! My goodness, he used to sit in there in that living room. Of course, I was down there when Betsy [Anderson] had it open, and I said it doesn’t look like that now! [Laugh] When I sat in here and played Monopoly. I mean just hours upon hours upon hours that we sat in there, Marjorie Ann and my sister and me. Chewning: Who is Marjorie Ann again? Stuart: She’s John Layton’s [Whitesell] sister. Chewning: Okay. Stuart: Yeah, and anyway, it was just unbelievable and then Clint Troxell was another one of the really strange people around town that we were great friends – Chewning: I remember the Troxell name. Stuart: Yeah, he lived out on the creek someplace. And he had – he’d been married and had children but his family was all gone, and he was kind of a drunk. But anyway, he would bring – he had a lot of dahlias, and when those dahlias would bloom, in he would come. And he would give them to all the “pretty girls”. And you just felt like you had arrived when you got some!! [Laugh] He was – and he really wasn’t very clean, you didn’t want to be around him, but you liked his flowers and you liked to be told you were pretty, you see! Anyway, they were just all characters. Chewning: I love hearing about these characters. Stuart: They – that’s right. They were real – there just were a lot of characters in Brownsburg. And of course, Osie [Supinger] and Mattie [Wade]. It really is true, that they knew everything that was going on. Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: See, that [telephone] equipment that they had was right at the front window. And they just sat there and did their job – well they could see everything that was going on. And it really – the last time I talked to Jimmy Bosworth, we were at a dinner, and he and his wife were invited – I guess the Marshall Foundation invited them in Washington. And for some reason or another, I was talking to Jimmy. And he was telling me again about – he sold some kind of medicine, traveled and did that. And he lived down there where Barnes lives now. And traveled and sold it. And he said a member of his firm called and wanted Jimmy Bosworth’s phone or something, and Osie said “Well, he’s not there because I just saw him go down the street!” [Laugh] And the people nearly dropped their teeth! [Laugh] Chewning: That’s funny. A different life. Stuart: That’s right. When Jimmy told me that story – I’d heard it before, but I knew it was true when he told me! Chewning: Well, did they – could they hear the phone conversations, too? Stuart: Oh, sure! Chewning: And so they heard – they not only saw everything – Stuart: Of course! Chewning: that was happening on the street, they heard everything. Stuart: Of course! They heard everything. See you were all on everybody’s line. We were – when we were out at Brownsburg, it was still a party line. We were on like “39”. Well everybody on 39 could hear everything that was said. [Laugh] Chewning: I remember having a party line. I actually remember when we had “two longs and a short.” Stuart: Exactly. That’s exactly what our phone was down there. And they just knew everything, and they didn’t mind telling it. Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: Absolutely. Absolutely. So anyway, it was, it was a nice life! It really was. And I wouldn’t – well none of us would want it to be – to have lived any place else. And then, of course, people just began to go away. The Wades went to Staunton. Well, you know, in the house that you all have for the museum [2716 Brownsburg Turnpike], the Dunaways lived there, and she was Doodie. I don’t know what her real name was. But ah, they went to Waynesboro. See, everybody went to work in plants and that kind of stuff. And of course – It was a thriving place! [Laugh] It really was when we lived there. Chewning: Do you have any thoughts on other people that we probably ought to be talking with? We have a big list of people – Stuart: Yes. Chewning: to talk to. Stuart: Yes. I thought – I thought – you probably have her. But I thought Marjorie Ann. Chewning: I don’t have her. I didn’t know her name until you mentioned it. Stuart: Uh huh. Chewning: What’s her name? Stuart: Her name is Marjorie Whitesell Chittum. Chewning: And where does she live? Stuart: She lives in Fishersville. Chewning: And she’s younger than John Layton [Whitesell]? Stuart: Oh, Lord, yes. Yes. She – goodness – she’s younger than my sister. I can’t tell you exactly how old Marjorie Ann is. Chewning: Well that’s – that would be great. Stuart: Yes. And her – Chewning: Because he’s not doing very well, now. Stuart: Oh, no, no, no. No. And I wouldn’t – I wouldn’t – huh uh. Her address is 165 Hickory Hill Road. Fishersville. And the zip is 22939. And her telephone is 540-543-5474. Chewning: I’m so glad you knew about her. Stuart. Yes. Yes. Because she – they – they were there. Of course, the Dudleys, Mrs. Dudley was her grandmother. And Mrs. Whitesell was a Dudley, see. She married Mr. Whitesell. He was from over at Aqua. And Michael Miley, Lee’s photographer, is distant kin to him. The Mileys over there had a funeral home. Mr. Whitesell’s mother was a Miley and married a Whitesell, and Mr. Whitesell’s name was Miley Whitesell, so it gets all confusing. John Layton [Whitesell] still lives there where they grew up [2664 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And when we came to Brownsburg, Jude and I were enough the same age that Marjorie Ann was. And Marjorie Ann and John Layton didn’t get along at all! [Laugh] Cause there was so much difference in their age. Chewning: Oh, yeah. Stuart: Mr. Whitesell died – my goodness, Marjorie Ann wasn’t more than nine or ten – Chewning: Oh, no. Stuart: yeah, when Mr. Whitesell died. I found an autograph book that I had when I was a kid, and Mr. Whitesell had – Chewning: He had signed it? Stuart: He had signed it, uh huh. He was a really, really nice person. And we were in and out of their house. We were together so much, you know. Because Mother and Dad were always home, and there was always food. So, anyway. Chewning: Are you getting tired of talking? Stuart: No, I’m not! [Laugh] Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: I told you! I warned you! I really did. Let me see if there’s anything I’ve got here. [Checks her notes.] Yeah, I’ve told you all of that. Oh, and another thing – can I tell you one more?? Chewning: Oh, absolutely, yeah! Stuart: Now this was another of the unbelievable people. And she was a little tiny black lady. And she had – she had a house – a cabin – it was a real log cabin thing in there that sat just behind where Barnes – where Barnes’ property – that might be a part of his property [8 Hays Creek Road], or it might be school property, I don’t know. But her little cabin sat right in there, and it faced up toward the school. And it was just a dark little log cabin with a couple of little windows in it. Her name was Aunt Susan Porter. I’ll bet Mc [Sterrett] will remember her. She always went up to Asbury [United Methodist] Church, and so forth. And this one – these kids I’ve been telling you about – my sister, and Marjorie Ann and me – would go around there and sit on her steps, she didn’t have a porch. She just had little steps that came out. And we went around there and sat on her steps, and she just told us some of the darnedest stories that you have ever – and she was this little thing. You know, black woman, and tell the stories. She’d say, “Ooh, you know, it’s so dark outside! And I’m scared to death!” You know that kind – Chewning: Did she scare you? Stuart: Yes, she did. It was that kind of emotion. She’d put herself into it, you know. Well, we loved it! We really did. And then she would sing. [In a singsong voice] All of these songs, you know. [Laugh] And we just loved it. And then sometimes, she’d even ask us some Catechism questions, those kinds of things. And she was interested in what we were doing. Well, you know, I must have been in the third or fourth grade of school. I know that the new school building hadn’t been built, and we were still up there in the red building. And we played down along where her cabin was located. And then there was a little path sort of that went down and around to Mr. Dice’s house [22 Hays Creek Road]. It was Mr. Dice then. The Drivers live there now. A little path from the school that some of the kids sort of went that way. Anyway, we were up there playing [gestures to show relationship of school, path, and Aunt Susan’s] and having a good time – and I couldn’t have been in more than the third or fourth grade. And we heard this commotion. [Gives a little shriek] And of course, all the kids went out there and watched. And it was somebody like the ah – social services now, you’d call it. I don’t know what you called it then. But it was these people – and I remember two great big men. Maybe I manufactured that, but that’s what I remember. And they took that little lady out of there. And she didn’t want to go. And they told her, “Well, there’s not anything for you to do – else for you to do. You’ve got to go. You’re going to Petersburg today.” And she says, “Well, if I go, I’m going to come back.” “Well, you’re going to go.” And they took her, and put her in a car or something, and we never saw any more of her. Chewning: What was in Petersburg? Stuart: I don’t know. Must have been something like an old folks home. I don’t know. That’s the last we ever heard – the last we ever saw, or I ever saw, and I don’t think anybody else ever heard. If they did, I would love to hear what happened to Aunt Susan. Chewning: What was her last name? Stuart: Aunt Susan Porter. Chewning: And what did – had she worked at some point? Stuart: I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. She was just there. [Laugh] I don’t know. That’s another – see, there was no help for people like that. Now how did that woman eat? Of course, we didn’t know anything about having to buy food, because our food was always there. But where did that woman’s food come from? But she was a – we just thought she was the greatest thing in the world. Chewning: Oh, isn’t that curious. Stuart: Yeah, and she lived right back there, and nobody paid any attention. People in Brownsburg just went by. Nobody was worried about where Aunt Susan’s food was coming from. [Laugh] Or anything – nobody paid any attention. Everybody just went about their own work, own jobs, and anyway. But there was Aunt Susan. But she could really tell the stories. And real often, when we’d just walk in there, she’d be out there in her bushy yard just singing up a storm. [Laugh] Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: I don’t know whether she had kin people. I mean, that never occurred to us. We never wondered where she came from or where she was going. There was nobody else that was named Porter, as far as I know in Brownsburg. Now maybe, maybe Isabel – she’s older than I am. Chewning: Sites? Stuart: Yes, that’s her husband’s last name. Maybe she ah – would remember something about that. [End of Tape 1, Side B] Louise Wiseman Stuart Index A Arehart, Buzz · 6 Asbury Church · 43 Aunt Bessie · 7 B Barnes, Dick · 26 Barnes, Richard · 5 Beard, Richard · 18, 75 Beards · 61 Belle, Edwin · 62 Bellevue · 65 black church · 35 Blackwell, Elmer · 79 Blackwell, Phyllis · 81 Blalock, Chris · 2 Bolen, Hassie Dice · 10, 79 Bosworth house · 50 Bosworth, Dr. · 24 Bosworth, Jimmy · 39 Bosworths · 15 Bowles · 22 Bowles, Bobby · 36 Bowles, Edith and Edgar · 35 Brady, Mary · 57 Brownsburg air raid drills · 18 bank · 23 barber · 23 church · 35 croquet · 76 pool hall · 23 Post Office · 10 school · 9, 11–18, 30–34, 54, 62, 70–73, 89 rings · 82 shoe repair · 11, 25 shoemaker · 9 stores · 24 telephone · 39 telephone office · 23 C Campbell, Gwen · 15 Carl (subject’s brother) · 19 Carwell boys · 75 Carwell girls · 79 Carwell, Mildred · 59 Carwell's garage · 23 Chittum, Marjorie Whitesell · 41, See Whitesell, Marjorie Ann Chrysanthemum Show · 59 D Davis Station · 6 Dice, Mrs. · 88 Dice. Mr. · 43 Diehl, Dr. · 13 Dixon Graham · 89 Dot (subject's mother's sister) · 21 Drivers house · 43 Dudley family · 41 Dunaway family · 40 E East · 13 East, George · 19, 31, 82 Englemans store · 22 F Fairfield · 1 G Gilliam, Catharine · 15, 24 Gordon · 3 Gordon family · 4 H Halterman, Miss · 71 Hanna, Dr. C. Morton · 29, 59, 62 Harlow, Houston · 35 Harris, Margaret Wade · 22, See Wade, Margaret (Tootsie) Harrison, Randy · 5 Heffelfinger, Jen · 12 Hickman, Troy · 88 High Nooners · 64 Hockmans · 2 Houser, Mrs. · 8 Houston, Mr. · 62 Huffman, Elmer · 21, 23 Huffman, Isabel · 11, 16 Huffman, Julian · 11 J Jeffries, Dr. · 1 L Lackey, Fred · 78 Layman’s Apple Orchard · 1 Leech, Isabel · 11, 31 Leech, Thelma · 12 Lewis, John · 63 Lotts, Mary · 59 Lucas, Carrie · 61 Lunsford, Mr. · 14 Lunsford, Walter and Doris · 11 Lunsfords · 9 M Martin, Bud · 61, See Massanetta · 58 Matheny, Harve · 25 Mays, Virginia · 11 McClung, Senora · 13 McNutt, Hugh · 8 McNutt, Isabel · 11 Miley family · 41 Miller, Sam · 18 Moneymaker, Janet Reese · 3 Monopoly · 37 Montgomery, Mrs. · 13 Moore, Frances Wiseman · See Wiseman, Frances Moore, Tinker · 78 Morris, Marie (Mamie) · 34 N New Providence Church · 6, 58 black members · 61 bus · 61 cemetery · 66 Newcomer, Carl · 73 O outhouse fire · 4–5 P paperdolls · 28 Patterson family · 24 Patterson, Ag · 5 Patterson, Ed · 4, 74 Patterson, Jenny · 27 Patterson, Rosenell · 17, 70 Patterson, Rosenell. · 17 Patterson, Sam · 75 Pearl Harbor Day · 29 Pisgah · 3 Porter, Aunt Susan · 45 Potter, Aunt Sis (subject's great-great aunt) · 9 Powell family · 67 Powell, Anna Margaret · 67 Price, Dr. · 54 Price, Marilyn · 54, 55 R Reese · 2 Reese, George · 3 Reese, Weasel · 3 Robinson, Ralph · 18 S Shorter, Senora · 13 Shulls · 62 Sites, Isabel · 57 Slusser family · 35 Slusser, George · 82 Sterrett’s farm · 88 Stevenson, Doug · 56 Stuart, Boyd · 8, 12, 17, 18, 30, 31, 36, 49, 62, 64, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 81, 82, 89 Stuart, Louise Wiseman · 1 birth · 1 brother Carl · 4 business school · 66 church elder · 49 family · 2 father · 7, 8 in Brownsburg · 1, 4, 9 in Davis Station · 6 Mother’s sister, Helen · 4 schooling · 8, 11 sister Frances · 4 Supinger, Bob · 23 Supinger, Osie · 51 Supinger’s Store · 22 Swisher, Henny · 71, 75 Swisher, Jeff · 53 Swopes family · 37 T Tolley, Leonard · 75 Trimmer, Miss (Osie) · 17, 21, 30, 53–55, 70, 80 Troxell, Clint · 38 W Wade family · 9, 21 Wade, Annie · 9 Wade, Blair Terrell · 69 Wade, Edith · 35 Wade, Elsie · 61 Wade, James F. · 70 Wade, Jen · 12 Wade, Margaret (Tootsie) · 9, 51 Wade, Mattie · 51 Wade, Pauline · 12 Wade, Randall · 8, 27, 57, 60, 63, 64, 66 Wade, Winston · 67 Wade’s cemetery lot · 64 Wade’s Mill · 67 Walthals · 62 Ward, Lib · 10 Whipple, Dorothy · 52 Whipple, Mollie Sue · 2, 16, 31 Whipple, Mollie Sue & Fred · 52 White, Dr. · 62, 84 Whitesell family · 41 Whitesell, Ida · 10 Whitesell, John Layton · 10, 31, 34 Whitesell, Marjorie Ann · 21, 22, 25, 26, 27, 38, 53 Wiseman, Carl · 82, 83 Model T · 74–76 wounded in WW II · 83, 87 Wiseman, Frances · 77 Wiseman, Johnnie · 2 Woody’s store · 5 World War II · 18–20, 29–30, 82–89 casualties · 19, 82, 88, 89 V mail · 85